Head and Base Gaskets- Use Sealant or not??

[xr400forever]

I am just doing the top end on my 220. This is my 1st time doing a rebuild. I am wondering whether or not I should use any sort of sealant on the head and base gaskets.

Also, how do you all torque cylinder base bolts. A socket won't fit over them so I bought a crows foot adapter but that wont fit over the nuts either. I really don't want to screw up! Thanks for all you help on this one!

 

[fatty_k]

The head gasket is aluminum and comes already stickey. The base gasket is paper, so you can smear some 2 stroke oil on it if you like, but I installed mine dry with no problems. As for the base nuts, just snug them down. Thats the only way to do it besides buying a Motion Pro adapter.

 

[jmutiger]

www.motionpro.com has some tool designed just for that base bolt problem.

Keep in mind if you rig up some way to use a torque wrench with a longer arm, you have to consider you will be putting more torque into the fastner than you would have without the longer arm.. There is a formula to adjust the torque wrench's setting.

As for the goop.. Nope, you don't need any, but it never hurts.. I'd grease the base gasket so you are more likely to be able to re-use it, and it won't stick quite so hard to the cases next time you open it up.

Jon!

 

[jamin326]

you shouldn't need to use a gasket sealant on either one, and i don't think putting two stroke oil on the base gasket is a good idea i'm pretty sure it needs to be dry, i did have a problem once with my base gasket leaking so i just used a small bead of a black gasket sealant on both sides of the base gasket, worked great, as for tightening the cylinder nuts i just use a ratcheting open end wrench and snug them down

 

[kevinkdx]

One word- Copper-coat buy a can of it and put it on at leat the head gasket and your gaskets will never leak.

 

[agitt73]

i secound the copper coat vote

 

[canyncarvr]

No...I don't KNOW...but I think copper coat or any spray is a bad idea to an already COATED gasket (as the head gasket is). IF the head gasket were not coated, then copper coat or other hi-tack spray would be a good bet.

This just comes to mind. That filmy stuff on the head gasket? That is NOT a protective covering...it's part of the gasket! Don't peel it off. ;) No..I'm not aware of that issue due to personal experience! ...sheesh...

re: torque and the cylinder.

You can use a crowfoot. Motion Pro DOES make a wrench specifically designed for access. Has a square hole in the middle to accept a ratchet.

Yes, you DO need to run the numbers thru a mathematical formula when using an adapter that changes the length of the wrench.

Don't bother.

You do NOT have to worry about that if the adapter is attached at a 90º angle to the torque wrench.

USE a torque wrench. Keep your wrenches at a right angle. Tighten to spec in an X fashion. If you don't have the spec, ask! The 'just snug' approach works fine...depending on what 'snug' means to you. That's why there are threads concerning 'cheap' oil drain plugs, 'cheesy' seat bolts etc.

Because one's 'snug' is another's 'reef'.

XR: You DID use a wiseco for your 220, right?

The fortunate ones'a us that have 200s can use Pro-X pistons of the correct alpha tolerance designation (a,b,c or d). Those stuck with 220s have no choice in the matter (if they want to get rid of their flimsy-skirt oem piston, anyway)

Cheers!

 

[mstone]

to get the cylinder bolts roughly close to the torque values, grab a foot long box end and apply the specified lbs. I think its about 16lbs or something like that. If you need help with what 16lbs feels like, grab your wifes scale( carefull not to get grease on it ) and push that up aganst the end of the wrench untill it reads 16lbs. A fish scale works great. Remember torque values are in 1 foot lbs, so if your wrench is 6 inches (1/2 a foot) apply 32lbs, or 8lbs for a 2 foot wrench ...

One more thing. If you use your wifes scale, remember that they always read 3-5lbs lighter and fish scales always read 3-5lbs heavier.

 

[xr400forever]

Thanks for all the great responses guys! In a way, I am as confused as ever regarding the goop on gasket issue. The options seem to be either dry or copper-coat on the head gasket. Base gasket options include copper-coat, dry, or 2-stroke oil.
mstone: I like your advice for the torque issue. The crows foot I have does not fit and I will not be buying an adapter.
canyncarvr: I did end up getting a stock piston. I hope this works out, the bike is very stock at the moment so perhaps it won't be worked hard enough to crack. Heard too many bad Wiseco stories.

 

[canyncarvr]

Most anecdotal info has stock 220 pistons ok except for quite modified/ridden-hard bikes. Didn't know if you'd heard the problems with oem 220 pistons or not...and now would be the time to change it!

Most 'bad wiseco stories' seem to originate with improper piston/cylinder clearance. The wiseco is a forged piston..therefore has kind of a 'grain' to the metal, so it expands differently than a cast piston.

Think of it as a comparison between a real wood 2X4 and a piece of versa-lam.

But, you're not worrying about piston 'fit' cuz you aren't honing (or boring) a cylinder to fit a particular piston. The nicosel plated cylinder eliminates that variable.

If you used an oem pistion, hope you got a 'C' piston for a 'C' motor. Or whatever it's supposed to be.


My 'vote': dry head AND base.

Everything has to be spotlessly clean. Use something nasty like lacquer thinner or 99% alcohol to wipe it clean when your done removing old gasket material.

mstone: difference in scale verity. ...ha! good humor!!

BTW...a 72# salmon caught recently on the rogue. ...on a FLY! Yes, it is a record.

 

[BRush]

If copper coat on the head gasket is good enough for Eric Gorr, it’s good enough for me. As for the base gasket, I’ve done two top ends now using the Permatex brand (I think) “Hylomar” gasket sealer. Seems to have worked well. Stays pliable and eases removal of the base gasket.

 

[xr400forever]

Well guys, the job is done. Thankyou all for your great input. I ended up using copper sealant out of a can (vs. spray on type) for both base and head gaskets. I torqued the base gaskets by feel, first comparing what 18 ft. lbs. felt like on a different bolt. After an hour of break-in there are no leaks or problems. I am really excited to have it done myself, what a sense of satisfaction.

 

[canyncarvr]

From EG's website:

The new-style steel gaskets can be cleaned and reused a few times, but you'll need to spray the gasket with a sealer such as Permatex Spray-A-Gasket or copper-coat.

I guess if I was reusing a head gasket I'd certainly be looking for something to help the sealing process. With a rebuild every couple of years...I treat myself to a brand new one!! ;)

Actually, I DO use sealant on my kdx head gasket...around water passages.

BTW..note this (from the same website)

Don't use liquid gasket sealer...

xr: And look at the $$ you saved!! That in addition to the sense of satisfaction AND the fact that you know it was done right...pretty much a win-win-etc situation.

Congratulations!!

 

[Reesknight]

Don't forget to go back after break-in and 'resnug' the base nuts and cylinder head nuts again.