Miss-Matching Case Halves

[mkandl53]

My son's brand new 02 kx65 failed a lower end bearing before we got 3/4 gal through it and I noticed that some folks have reported repeated low-hour (less than 10 hrs) failures with the same engine over and over and others have had no lower end failures at all.

FYI: break-in, warm up, 32-1 oil mix, ... all done properly.

My question is that I noticed on the bottom of the cases, numbers were written at the factory in colorful ink on each case half. It looks like one of the digits got slurred from an 8 into a 6 on one case half and may have been miss-matched with a 6 digit on the other case.

Can miss-matching case halves cause repeated lower end bearing failures? It seems to me that if one main bearing location was slightly higher vertically it could put a slight bind on the lower end beariing.

Anyone have experience with this?

(PS: there is a reasonable bump at the machined suface that the cylinder sits on)

 

[Jaybird]

Do you mean that the "deck" is two differnt heights? That is a problem. Some machine work may be in order. The two halves of the deck must be the same height. Being it's brand new, I'd be screaming at the dealer where purchased.
Your are correct, the low end bearings must sit in the same plane.

 

[kevinkdx]

i would definatly talk to the dealer to see what the heck is going on. IT should be under warranty, cuz the bearings shouldn't just faile that quick.

 

[e.c.bert]

Notify Kawasaki USA immediately!

Hi I'm robtirma@msn.com, push this off on the dealer in reguards to how the fuel came in the bike. It is common neglect from all dealers to improperly fuel dirt bikes; this is a set up requirement at the dealer. The damage may have already been done. Demand a New! motorcycle from the factory guys politely they'll give it to you. And mke shure the dealer shows concern for this matter and stay calm, if you get the brush from the dealer just gety the phone number from him for Kawasaki USA that he uses and for Team Green as well. This should not take any more than a phone call. :cool:

 

[mkandl53]

here is the latest. I took the engine to the dealer and showed him the miss-match with a straight edge across the two case halves. He agreed that the cases are not aligned on the machined surface that sits under the cylinder. He also agrees that putting in a new crank will result in another crank failure because of this miss-match. But what Kaw is telling him is for me to split the cases and send the cases to CA (I'm in NC) and they will look at them and decide what to do... I am pleased that Kaw is involved and not saying no yet, but man this is turning into a marathon. So, I guess tomorrow I go and get the engine back from the dealer and split the cases... It seem like getting parts so that I can get this running again may take some time...

I offered to send Kaw digital pics of the mis match using a straight edge, but no go says the dealer. He says split the cases and send them to Kaw. Does the Kaw response seem reasonable? At best I will get new cases, crank, ... and I rebuild the thing. If I thought I had a leg to stand on, I would demand a new engine and be done with it...

Is the watch word here patience? Thanks for the guidance.

 

[Jaybird]

Hmmmm.... a bad report here would not be a good thing considering.
I would look at getting them to realise that it's THEIR fault not yours. Tell THEM to split the cases.
You do have a leg to stand on, demand a new motor. Scream loud so they hear you well. :)

 

[bscottr]

mkandl53,
I agree with Jaybird, let them split the cases or send the complete engine to Kawasaki. If you split the cases it leaves them the option of this becoming your problem/fault.
If you send the complete engine I believe it increases the likelihood of receiving a new engine, where as sending the case halves may result in Kawasaki machining the halves, possibly incorrectly.
It sounds like you have a good relationship with the dealer, that's a big plus. Just remember they are your representative with Kawasaki, have them fight for you. Simply ask them if it was thier personal bike how would they like it resolved?

Good Luck,
Scott

 

[mkandl53]

Well, I had to proceed with me splitting the cases because I had gone so far down that road and the dealer would not budge from this course of action no matter what. If he did the work, he said I would have to pay labor because the most he could get out of Kaw is parts, no labor.

Before I split the cases, I put a staight edge on top of the machined cylinder surface, across the two case halves. Both the front and rear edges left a .0025" gap. So, I split and stripped the cases and expressed them off to Kaw in CA. Hopefully I will know something today. I also put a list together for all the parts needed to rebuild the engine (bearings, seals gaskets, piston, cylinder, head,cases...).

I may need help pressing the crank into the cases/bearings. I can machine spacers to put between the crank flywheels, but I am a little concerned about messing up a new crank putting it in. It took a fair amout of force pushing the old crank out of the cases and I imagine, it will take the same putting in the new. Since the seals will have to be installed in the cases before the crank, heating the cases to make the interference less is not really an option...

Any ideas here as to the best way to press a new crank w/bearings into the cases so that I do not disturm the crank halve's alignment? Also I would imagine the crankshaft should have some side-side movement/clearance, right? I do not see that parameter in the service manual and I was wondering how to insure the main bearings are not bound slightly from the case reassembly.

Thanks again for the help!

 

[bscottr]

mkandl53,
The article below helped me a few weeks ago.

http://ericgorr.com/techarticles/2techlowrebuild.htm

Good luck,
Scott

 

[MikeT]

You're doing what????

So, let me get this straight, Kawasaki built an engine that is defective and they expect you to be a professional mechanic and rebuild the engine yourself, plus pay for shipping it to them?? This doesn't sound like a fair deal. I think you should also be reimbursed for all the time and effort it took you to do all this work. At a minimum they should pay for all the parts, shipping, other expenses, and throw in a set of tires and a case of oil. When someone buys a car and the valve train has a problem, do you think, Toyota asks the owner to remove the camshafts and mail them in???

I think you're getting shafted. I would make a BIG stink about this to Kawasaki. :silly: :silly:

 

[whyzee]

here is the latest. I took the engine to the dealer.....

Ok, here is where I see your problem starting.
You said you only ran 3/4 gallon of fuel run through when it broke, why then, did you not put the bike into the hauler and drive it up to the dealer??? I'm sure you walked in holding the motor complaining about the seizure and the mismatched deck heights (two unrelated items**) and the dealer knows or thinks you've been modifying the bike. (**As far as decking the halves, this is done after the cases have been assembled. The cases are aligned with pins and should align the crank plane axis to a given tolerance.) To take what Mike just said, re. the Toyota, I don't think the Toyota owner would take his motor to the dealer to get a crank fixed either. You are getting the shaft from Kawi, but in my opinion, you handed it to them and told them where to put it. If Kawi now rules in your favor and you get ANYTHING other than a lesson from this I will be surprised.:think :mad:

 

[mkandl53]

First off there is no warranty on KX motocross bikes. I am used to this...
When the engine seized, I thought we stuck a piston, so I pulled the jug to see what was going on. If we stuck a piston, this is always going to be a customer problem and I can handle that. What I found was a seized lower end bearing and I immediately called the dealer. He indicated that he would try to get Kaw to get a new crank etc for me. But he indicated all labor was on me and has stuck to that. Then I call him about the miss-matched cases and he talked with Kaw and they insisted on the cases being split and sent to them for inspection... I really have NO leg to stand on because of the big no warranty sticker on the bike. But it sure would be a LOT better to get a new engine here... I have tried to push on the dealer adn he stands firm that this is the best shot with Kaw because if we piss them off, we give them a reason to not help. Anyway, I would not trust this dealer rebuilding my whole engine, I will make sure it IS right when it goes back together.

As far as the Toyota analogy, there is a BIG difference. Toyota comes with a warranty. Race bikes do not. I have kept the dealer in the situation form the moment I found what happened. Everything I have done has been performed with the dealer instructing me to do so. Lastly, the case match is NOT unrelated. With .0025" of mismatch, it looks like the primary cause, by binding up the lower end bearing.

Back to the main question now... The main bearings on the old crank were tight on the crank and tight in the cases. Is there not supposed to be some axial clearance/movement in the crank? On my race kart engines, it seemed like there was somethign like .010" axial play, so I am wondering why I do not see that here?

And if I use a machined spacer between the flywheels, while I am pressing the crank into the case/bearing, it seems like there should be no possibility of miss-aligning the crank. Correct?

Anyway, I am in this situation... now to make the best of it.
Thanks for the help.
mkandl53

 

[georgieboy]

hello mkandl53, pls give me an update about that crank story.
just want to know how thing went? thnks in advance george

 

[DEANSFASTWAY]

Isnt there a warranty on materials & worksmanship . If the case halves are off and it has been running lean because of this, you should have a legitamate gripe , Maybe you should ask the team green guys about this . Your rep might be giving you the big brush off . Did you know that Kaw replaced thousands of 65 frames for cracking .At Lorettas last year Kaw had them dropped shipped to the track, More than 2 of my customers came back with the frames for me to switch , they didnt want to take them to their local dealers because the thought it would take too long,? You have to cut off the steering stem #s and send them back to KAW. One of the local fast 80 riders that I help out broke his02 KX 85 frame in half and wgen it did it broke the steering head off the frame and broke the cylinder head mount rigfht off of the cyl head . The local dealer Brunswick Powersports repaired the bike for them quickly so they could make a Lorretta Qualifier, It was WARRANTIED . The kids father Bobby J went in the next week and bought hin a KX 100 also so he could race supermini. I press alot of 65 and 80/100 cranks particularly on Kaws I like to use the IMS PRO SERIES ROD I think its higher quality . Those little motors see alot of REVS and alot of heat so you need good oil and stay around 32/1 . Dont lean out the oil thinking it will run stronger . Maybe if you present it like a materials& worksmanship claim it may work out better for you. Unfortunately all the while your kid cant ride his bike. GOOD LUCK.