Motocyclist last night 250/450 shoot out

[jaliveto]

Did anyone see Motorcyclist on the speed channel last night. They reviewed the 03' dirt rider 250 class shoot out. It has the KX,CR,ZY,KTm,RM 250's. Also this year included the CRF450 and the YZF450. Anyhow, the CRF450 took the prize!!!!

 

[johnpace2]

No KTM 450SX? That's a dissapointment. Hopefully, they shootout the KTM, CRF and YZF soon.

This comes out in the December issue right?

 

[Buckholz]

ktm250 and HonCR250 were lightest on scales at 219lbs each.

I'd rather have the lightest bike, not a hill o' beans difference in performance between all of them.....

 

[jaliveto]

No KTM 450.
Here is the weight breakdown
CRF 450 236lbs ( gained 3 pounds from 02')
YZF 450 232lbs
kx250 225
zy250 224
cr 250 219

Dont remember the ktm and the rm
And yes it will be out in the December issue. I have had my CRF450 for about 1.5 months now and every time I get on it , I like it more. Went from a kx250 to this and it is so much easier to ride. I think I'm a 4-stroker for life now.

 

[johntt]

I bought the new Dirt Rider today. They have all the dyno curves on one graph. The ktm 250 had the highest peak with the CrF a close 2nd, but the CRF spread of power is second to none. It makes more power than all the other bikes for 3 to 4 thousand RPM including the yzf450! MXA said they were equal up to 8300 then the yzf makes more power, but they don't have a dyno on the 4-stroke big bores to contradict their opinions same as last year. These magazines are so inconsistent sometimes it's ridiculous.

 

[MotoGreg]

I got Dirt Rider first and was amazed at how the CRF totally killed the YZF all the way through the dyno chart but they all said the YZF had a brutal power delivery. It must be that dip in powerband down low that you can see on the chart. It drops off power and then comes back on hard to control. Why in world would MXA say the YZF makes more power on the dyno and then not show us the dyno charts? They have all the dyno charts for the 125's in the same issue but conviently forgot to show the CRF/YZF charts? It looks like Dirt Rider put their money where their mouth is and showed the chart to back up their story. What's the deal MXA?

I like how Dirt Rider is not secretive. They introduce you to every tester and they vary in skill and weight. Every tester has his own section to tell you what he thinks in his own words. In MXA it's just somebody writing the story. Is it one person's opinion? Do the tester(s) have any say on what is written? Why is it so secretive? Why can't every tester give us his own story like in Dirt Rider? I don't place very much weight in the sole opinion of one anonymous mystery writer.

 

[johntt]

My thoughts exactly Greg ! On the dyno graph you can also see where the yzf stops making power but not the CRF. By the way I've ridden both and they both rip,but guess which one I own. Last year MXA said the yzf426 was faster but never showed a dyno. Now this year in the article about the yamaha factory tour they admit the crf had more power last year. More HP and trque pls 15lbs. lighter [last year] but slower?They are the only ones that ever go to the Yamaha factory that I remember, twice!

 

[MxKid512]

I agree with you Greg. Dirt Rider seem like the most up front magazine. Some of the mags you have no clue where the opinions are coming from. At least with Dirt Rider you see the story and overall view and then you see opinions of varying levels. Nice touch. :thumb:

 

[motomike137]

Yeah I here you guys, I just got a new pipe for my dyno and now it really rocks! Explain to me why the YZ power curve ends where it does on the graph. I'm pretty sure it revs out past the point they show.

 

[jaliveto]

It seems to me that some of these magazines won't pull the trigger and give an honest opinion. Seems they don't want to pissed off Honda or Yamaha. They have no problem bashing kawasaki or suzuki though.

 

[JTT]

I thought the sound testing was interesting...

 

[MotoGreg]

Explain to me why the YZ power curve ends where it does on the graph. I'm pretty sure it revs out past the point they show.

I thought something was wrong with that too until I read the "redline report" in the black box above the dyno chart. It says "The Honda starts making usable power earlier than the YZF450, then pulls for 1000 rpm longer on top." I don't know if that's when the rev-limiter kicks in or if it just starts falling on it's face at that point?

 

[motomike137]

Not very clear is it? Their article is a little hard to follow. I don't think the YZF shuts down at that point and I don't think it falls on its face either. I still buy this mag along with all the others and try to decipher what I can from their articles. But this one seems like a CRF love fest right from the opening page and they sort of begrudgingly acknowledge the YZF in a backhanded sort of way. I like Dirt Bikes assesment ot the big three thumpers, I think theirs is probably the most objective. Their all sweet and just a little different from each other.

 

[flynbryan]

ive found dirt rider to be the best and most informative. all though i have to agree w/the orange riddin guys in the ktm forum and moto greg on this....i think all the mags seem to be alot fast to knock the factories w/less money than yam. and the all mighty honda. lets face it everyone knows honda has the most bucks. i may just be paranoid/consperacy theory'd but it does kinda rub me funny. dont get me wrong im not a hon/yam basher,(ive owned both and loved both) i just think that the magazines are a little more praising of the manufactures that pay for the big ad spaces.

 

[jaliveto]

agreed!

 

[Twistit]

Hi, my first forum. I was all set to buy a 2003 CR 250, but after reading the shootout, I'm now not sure. It's obvious that the CRF really stood out. My problem is should I convert to a thumper since I always have ridden a 2 stroker. I would test ride a thumper but everyone I ride with has a 2 stroke so I really have no idea what to think.

 

[jaliveto]

Twistit- I went from a kx250 to the crf450 and it is the best move I've ever made. This is the best bike I've ever been on. I'm sure the yz450 is awesome to, but I have never ridden it. I never like 4 strokes because I had ridden the Yamaha wr400 and wr426 and the yz426 in the past. I felt they were heavy, clumbsy, and hated the engine braking. Well, forget all that. The CRF 450 is light, powerful, and just plain fast. Totally easy to start. It seems like most guys at the places I ride love my bike when they ride it. I see more and more of them all the time. Good luck in your decision. What do you ride now?

 

[Twistit]

Jal- exactly my thoughts, I was concerned with the weight and engine braking, and also I was thinking about the reliablity. I ride a 97 CR 250 and that thing was fast and indestructable. But it's fast getting old and it's high time I get a new one anyway. Thanks for your help, I think I'll go for the CRF 450. It's time that I try something different anyways.

 

[Ickabod]

HMMM? Do I want a bike that's 10 times more bike than I'll ever need,or 11 times?

 

[bigred455]

Originally posted by Twistit
Hi, my first forum. I was all set to buy a 2003 CR 250, but after reading the shootout, I'm now not sure. It's obvious that the CRF really stood out. My problem is should I convert to a thumper since I always have ridden a 2 stroker. I would test ride a thumper but everyone I ride with has a 2 stroke so I really have no idea what to think.

...

If you want the cr don't let the mags change your mind.Remember,the riders who test the bikes for the mags are just giving their opinion,it does not mean it is a fact.I am very sure the cr is a solid bike,just like the others.From what I hear, it has a sweet suspension,that GOES A LONG WAY ON THE TRACK.I am getting the kx. I read Dr mag,the kx came in second to last I think,that means nothing to me I am still getting the kx.I rode the crf and the yzf,the motors are so strong and the power gets to the ground so incredibly it almost isn't fair compared to the 2 strokes.The only reason I will not buy a thumper is because of all the additonal moving parts that are involved with the motor.The valves,cam,accelarator pump,automatic decompression,timing chain,etc.I like to do the work on my bikes,but with a four stroke I believe if it starts running ratty it would be harder for me to diagnose the problem,plus with all the extra mechanical parts that are involved, their is a better chance for that.This is also my opinion and only my opinion.Another reason I am buying a 2 stroke is because if the sales drop because of the thumper craze,the RD will not put any effort into their current 2 stroke models to find even more performance out of the following year models.Happy picking.

 

[bigred455]

What, torque doesn't matter anymore on the dyno's. :flame:

 

[Twistit]

Good point. I work on my bikes too and 2 strokes are easy to work with. Nothing complicated and I like that. Well, I have time to think about it and it's kinda fun thinking about it. After all it's my hard earned $$$.

 

[zeke]

Twistit, I also switched from a two stroke to the 02 CRF450. This is the best bike I have ever been on and the most FUN. You can not go wrong with these new 4 strokes. It is not hard to work on.I have had the valve cover off and did the valve adjustment. I had to remove the cam and put new shims in. It has been trouble free. I don't expect any problems, but it is not hard to work on whatsoever. A top end will be no major job. Compared to a 97 cr250,a 450 would be a major improvement in all areas and you will love the power delivery.

 

[patty]

Twistit, let me know what you finally decide. I've been debating a 2003 CR250 or CRF450 for this next year as well. I test drove a 2003 CRF450 last week and absolutely loved it, but after fixing a friends YZ426F for the second big-end bearing failure in 2 years. I feel a bit gun-shy on the whole 4 stroke thing. I love the fact that you can do a full rebuild on a 2 stroke for well under $1000, but its double that for a 4 stroke.

 

[Twistit]

Hee hee, it's gonna be the 2003 CRF. I have to wait for a month or so till I get it. I'll definitly let you know how I like it. I have a feeling that I'll just love the bike, but if for any reason I don't, well I can always trade it in for a new CR. Lose a bit of $$$ but become wiser in the future. See ya!