Question about 2 strokes v.s. 4 strokes

[XMotoX]

I was under the impression that 2-stroke engines required more maintenence than 4-stroke engines. One of my friends who rides a CR80 said that you he has to rebuild his engine every season. You don't have to do this with 4-strokes, right?

But, I've heard on here a few times, people saying that if you don't mind doing alot of engine maintenence, then get a 4-stroke. This confused me because I thought 2-strokes were the ones that got worked on more.

I am a total beginner when it comes to this kind of stuff so I want to know what type of bike would be best for a beginner maintenence-wise. Would a 2-stroke or a 4-stroke be better if you have no clue what you are doing?

Can someone help me clear this up?

 

[Okiewan]

I was under the impression that 2-stroke engines required more maintenence than 4-stroke engines.

Nope. Maybe old 4-t trail bikes, play bikes and XR's are bullet proof, but, the new high-tech 4-T's require more maint.

if you don't mind doing alot of engine maintenance, then get a 4-stroke.

define "a lot". Changing oil and checking valve clearance? Still, more (typically) than a 2-stroke.

I am a total beginner when it comes to this kind of stuff so I want to know what type of bike would be best for a beginner maintenence-wise

A 2-stroke.

 

[Octane250F]

Its kind of a toss up, IMO.
On a 4-stroke you will be changing oil and adjusting valves (although they go quite a long time before you need to adjust the valves and its a pretty easy job to do) but on a 2-stroke you will be doing topend rebuilds on a fairly regular basis.
Also, with a 2-stroke you have to premix the gas because they dont have oil injection.

 

[XMotoX]

Alright. Thanks for the info.

What exactly is a top end rebuild? I've heard the term around here countless times and I really dont know what it means. My dad said that with 2-strokes, you just have to take apart the engine, clean it all up and replace some parts that get worn down. And he said after 2 or 3 times, you could do it in your sleep. He said it costs anywhere from $60-$150 everytime you do it.

 

[Okiewan]

He's right. A top end (on a 2-stroke) can be done quickly and easily with just a little experience.Piston, ring(s), gaskets.

 

[XMotoX]

Cool. I'm just worried about the whole power thing between 2-T's and 4-T's. I've heard that 4-strokes have a smooth acceleration where the powerband on a 2-stroke can be a kick in the ass. Is this not as big a problem for a beginner as it sounds?

Also, I've heard that you have to ride 2-T's a lot differently than 4's. I think it was my brother who told me that you can't really ride slowly on a 2-stroke or you'll stall it. He said you have to keep the rpm's up at all times, so you have to keep revving it constantly.

Any truth to this?

 

[ComradeMikhail]

The powerband on a two stroke really isn't an issue unless you make it be one, I find. It's the same way with either 2 or 4, with a good running bike, if you go from nothing to wide open, you're probably gonna wind up with your front tire up in the air. The difference is with a 4 stroke is that the power delivery is smoother. 4's are more torquey than 2's, and have more usable power down low as compared to a 2 stroke. If you're easy with the throttle, the bike becomes more manageable.

A few things are different between two strokes and fours that will change your riding style on each.

On fours, there is engine braking, it will slow you down when you get off the throttle, as compared to a two where you can usually just keep rolling without too much resistance once you're off the throttle.

When you said you can't ride slowly on a 2 stroke or you'll stall it, you shouldn't have a problem as long as you're in the proper gear for the speed you're in. The reason you heard this is because two strokes generally require more shifting and clutching as compared to fours because of the two's more narrow powerband. As I said before, four strokes have a pretty wide powerband, and require less shifting to keep it in the usable power range.

As for maintenance, newer four strokes are really high tech, and unfortunately, with the new tech they have comes more maintenance. It's still not too bad, you just gotta make sure everything stays in clearance. The thing about twos is that since they're revving so much faster than a four, the piston/rings wear faster. That's about $100 for a top end on a two.

Fours last longer, but they have more moving parts. They are more complicated to work on. Sometimes more needs to be replaced than just a piston/rings (valves, etc). They say they're more expensive, but some people argue that. I don't know, I've never owned a four.

If you're just a beginner on maintaining bikes, I'd recommend a two because they have less moving parts, and once you'd done a top end with one, it gets real easy.

 

[Josherichy]

I would recomend a 2 stroke but if you have no bike experience you might want to get a xr200 or a crf230, good bikes to learn on

 

[OldTimer]

Cool. I'm just worried about the whole power thing between 2-T's and 4-T's. I've heard that 4-strokes have a smooth acceleration where the powerband on a 2-stroke can be a kick in the ass. Is this not as big a problem for a beginner as it sounds?

Also, I've heard that you have to ride 2-T's a lot differently than 4's. I think it was my brother who told me that you can't really ride slowly on a 2-stroke or you'll stall it. He said you have to keep the rpm's up at all times, so you have to keep revving it constantly.

Any truth to this?

I just want to commend you for being an excellent writer. It's very refreshing. Keep up the good work! :cool:

 

[dezryder]

I just want to commend you for being an excellent writer. It's very refreshing. Keep up the good work! :cool:

I second! :cool: X2

 

[motocross_rider]

I've been wondering all this stuff too....

 

[XMotoX]

I just want to commend you for being an excellent writer. It's very refreshing. Keep up the good work! :cool:

I second! :cool: X2

Thanks dudes. :nod:

And thanks for the info ComradeMikhail. I am a total beginner at bike maintenence and somewhat of one to riding. So, would you suggest me a 2-stroke? Or not?

If so, an 80-85? Or 125? I think that 125's sit a little too high for me, if the seat height measurements are accurate.

 

[ComradeMikhail]

Glad I could be of help :). Yeah, I'd recommend a two stroke. As for the size of the bike, I guess if I were you, I'd go to a dealer that would let me ride each an 80-85 and 125 or find some friends that have either and ride them. Ride em around a bit, find which suits you the best.

 

[Badgadjit1]

WHICHEVER YOU BUY......GET A TORQUE WRENCH AND A MANUAL!!!!!!!!! If your going to be doing your own maintenence (sp?), save you time and you wont have to wait for responses on here for doing simple things. Manuals have EVERYTHING, look on e-bay or dealer.

 

[dezryder]

Looking at your profile, you must be 15-16 years old. Go with the 125...not the 80cc. (you'll grow right out of a 80.)

I was riding a honda 250 scrambler at 15. Never have I ever owned a 125 for me to ride! (Kids yes...me no.) Just this old guys two cents.

 

[dezryder]

Good advise.

WHICHEVER YOU BUY......GET A TORQUE WRENCH AND A MANUAL!!!!!!!!! If your going to be doing your own maintenence (sp?), save you time and you wont have to wait for responses on here for doing simple things. Manuals have EVERYTHING, look on e-bay or dealer.

I second.

 

[TRIS]

get a ktm sx 125 mate. best bikes around. dont get anything earlier than a 2003 model. and keep it maintained and it will last for ages. im getting a ktm 144 sx 2007 when i find the money, will be damn nice.

 

[XMotoX]

Looking at your profile, you must be 15-16 years old. Go with the 125...not the 80cc. (you'll grow right out of a 80.)

I was riding a honda 250 scrambler at 15. Never have I ever owned a 125 for me to ride! (Kids yes...me no.) Just this old guys two cents.

I'm 16. And I'm about 5'6" or 5'7", 135 pounds.

The reason I was considering the 80 was because my step-dad owns an XR250R that sits 36 inches high and I can just touch the ground on my tip-toes. The 125's sit anywhere from 37 to 39 inches high. I probably wouldn't be able to touch the ground until I grew a little. I guess I'll have to see by spring when I make a purchase hopefully.

 

[OldTimer]

...XR250R that sits 36 inches high and I can just touch the ground on my tip-toes. The 125's sit anywhere from 37 to 39 inches high...

That's discounting sag. I imagine the 125's are designed with a lot more sag than an XR250. Aaannnd... you'll probably grow half a foot in the next six months!

 

[XMotoX]

Good deal. Plus, my step-dad said you can lower the suspension a little if you need to. I'll just make sure I eat my Wheaties.

 

[ComradeMikhail]

Didn't realize you were 16. I am as well, but I'm 5'10" and 180lbs. I wouldn't recommend you an 85. It'd probably bore you before too long. I know a kid about your height/weight that ride a 125. He seems happy on it. I'll be sticking with my 300 though ;) .

 

[XMotoX]

I'm just gonna have to go hit up the dealerships around here and see what measures up right. That seems like the best way to do it.

 

[mongial]

The way 4-stroke technology is going, 2 -strokes are becoming "obsolete." This means that people are selling used 2's for cheap so they can jump on the thumper wagon. I would recommend a used 125. A 2000 125 shouldn't run you more that $1,800 (most likely less than that).

 

[freakonaleash]

A 4-stroke is more reliable, but a 2-stroke is easier to work on. A 2 stroke will get you a lot more power for a lot less, but i personaly am a 4 stroke lover. I own a two right now, and its great, but id rather go four. About the top end rebuilds, you only really have to do them if your racing. My bikes an 86 and it hasnt had a top end build yet. Its got huge compression and starts first kick, so the key is maintainence. Im 15 and about 5'5" and i can ride my cr125 fine. I have quite a bit of experience though.

 

[snowboy]

I love this question. In my humble opinion, I agree with the guys saying 2's for the following reasons: 1) the 2 is going to be less expensive to buy, especially if used is OK with you 2) The newer 4's are more maintenance intensive and costly if you throw a valve. 3) top end replacement is easier on a 2 than a 4 and less expensive 4) I have ridden mostly 2's throughout my humble motorcycle life race a few races a year and never had to replace a top-end on newer ones. They're just built too well. I range between 1000 - 1500 miles total of single track(not ORV or two-tracking) per year including 1-5 races per year(enduros) keep the bikes an average of three years and change fluids and filter often and have yet to need a top-end.

I see your profile puts you in that teenager range, and ready to grow another foot per month. But what type of riding/racing do you plan to do. I ask because this affects how much maintenance you will require. If you moto 2 times a week plus one/two practices per week and the 2-stroke is tweeked for optimal HP output you will need to replace top ends more than the average rider. But similar maintenance would be required on a 4-stroke if ridden and tweaked similarly.

Additionally, the small-bore 2-stroke(100, 125, etc.) will make you a better rider than getting a 4-stroke or even an larger bore 2-stroke because it forces you to learn technical aspects of riding that include corner speed, momentum, throttle control, and clutch control. I have plenty of stories behind this theory to back this up if you need. It stems from the fact that the larger bore 2stroke and 4-strokes allow you to make more mistakes without needing to learn proper bike control.

The torque issue I have to contend with because I have passed plenty of 4-strokes in technical uphill sections digging holes to China with their rear wheels while I lug by them and their tongues hanging in the dirt. Torque of modern 2-stroke vs old school 4-stroke, I think the old school 4 takes it, but the modern 4-stroke is so tweaked to get it to revv quickly, I think that it has lost some of its low-end torque and acts more like a 2-stroke than ever. But in defense of the modern 4 stroke they may have just been unskilled riders that never learned about momentum, throttle control, and clutch control.

Good luck riding/racing