Which way should I go?
- Thread starter skipro3
- Start date
acutemp
LIFETIME SPONSOR
- Sep 4, 1999
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skipro3,
I have installed several sets of gold valves and the Kayaba shock on the KDX was the easiest of all. Showa shocks are a a royal pain in comparison. The only real "special" tool that you will need is a seal driver which you can make for a couple bucks. It's been over 5 years since I bought my valves, I think that they were $120.00 or so at the time. I usually don't get charged for my own shock recharge. The local shop owners are nice people and take good care of me, I think that they charge $10.00 usually.
I got my info on the carb's from a close source, it was my bike strapped to the Ron's dyno and I was running the throttle. :joke: My bike currently is running a 38mm AS that Ron installed a plate in.
--Dan
I have installed several sets of gold valves and the Kayaba shock on the KDX was the easiest of all. Showa shocks are a a royal pain in comparison. The only real "special" tool that you will need is a seal driver which you can make for a couple bucks. It's been over 5 years since I bought my valves, I think that they were $120.00 or so at the time. I usually don't get charged for my own shock recharge. The local shop owners are nice people and take good care of me, I think that they charge $10.00 usually.
I got my info on the carb's from a close source, it was my bike strapped to the Ron's dyno and I was running the throttle. :joke: My bike currently is running a 38mm AS that Ron installed a plate in.
--Dan
Acutemp,
In regards to the shock and shock body, is it worth hard anodizing the body for wear? I mean since you're in there, what's a little more down time if its worth it.
In regards to your engine, a 38mm A/S? Wow, what kind of intake manifold do you run? What kind of porting do you have to take advantage of the larger carb? Still a 200 or an overbore? How much top end do you have over stock? Inquiring minds...
Best,
Greg
In regards to the shock and shock body, is it worth hard anodizing the body for wear? I mean since you're in there, what's a little more down time if its worth it.
In regards to your engine, a 38mm A/S? Wow, what kind of intake manifold do you run? What kind of porting do you have to take advantage of the larger carb? Still a 200 or an overbore? How much top end do you have over stock? Inquiring minds...
Best,
Greg
G. Gearloose
Pigment of ur imagination
- Jul 24, 2000
- 709
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Speaking of seal drivers, whenever I need one, I go to the autoparts store and look at the tailpipe adapters. With all the kids putting fart cans on their, er, cars..they keep a good supply and just cost a few spare quarters.
- Thread starter
- #30
Update: I removed the head and it is ready for mailing as soon as the bank opens at 10 so's I can get a money order. I decided that my girl gets the best that's out there and I'm going with the mill / squishband mod for race fuel and the modified Air Stryker carb. I should be back in the saddle by April 3rd for a test ride. I will report back then. BTW, California gets a bit dry during the summer months and after the 4th of July I usually don't ride again until it rains in October. If someone would like to try out the head or carb and is willing to pay the shipping and a new head gasket for me, I am willing to loan them out for a trial.
Jerry
Jerry
acutemp
LIFETIME SPONSOR
- Sep 4, 1999
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gwhII,
The hard anodizing does have it's benifits but it's not something that I would probably have done. If I was sending out my suspension to be reworked I might consider it, but it's not on my must do mods list. I have had my shock torn down several times for service and rebuilding and it seems to be holding up very well as far as wear.
The motor on my bike is a stock bore 200 with porting by FRP and some extensive headwork by RB, if you ask Ron about my headwork his response will probably be :laugh: :laugh:
I am currently running a Rad Valve for my reed cage, I can change between different sized carbs pretty easily with it. I do want to give the DF2 a try but I want to really dial in the 38mm with my current setup before moving on to another mod. I have several RB carbs, both FMF pipes,a flywheel weight, and a few other part's that I can add or remove to set the bike up for the riding conditions.
--Dan
The hard anodizing does have it's benifits but it's not something that I would probably have done. If I was sending out my suspension to be reworked I might consider it, but it's not on my must do mods list. I have had my shock torn down several times for service and rebuilding and it seems to be holding up very well as far as wear.
The motor on my bike is a stock bore 200 with porting by FRP and some extensive headwork by RB, if you ask Ron about my headwork his response will probably be :laugh: :laugh:
I am currently running a Rad Valve for my reed cage, I can change between different sized carbs pretty easily with it. I do want to give the DF2 a try but I want to really dial in the 38mm with my current setup before moving on to another mod. I have several RB carbs, both FMF pipes,a flywheel weight, and a few other part's that I can add or remove to set the bike up for the riding conditions.
--Dan
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canyncarvr
~SPONSOR~
- Oct 14, 1999
- 4,005
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re: hijacking...yeah!
Dan: I didn't mean to infer by 'pony loss' that the topend was where the oem AS fell short. Ron did say something to the effect that it didn't work worth a hoot out of the box. Maybe maximum HP wasn't effected, but overall it pretty much stanketh.
Seal drivers: I have a pic of Dan's PVC seal pounder. For forks (not the subject, so this is a hijack?) I opted for the motion pro driver. The fact that it is a two piece driver is nice considering the 'stuff' you stack onto the tube and then separately drive into the lower leg. Dan's shock driver has a slot cut into it that could accomplish the same purpose.
re: anodizing
If shock maintenance is done as it should be (and usually is not), piston/body wear isn't an issue. Not sez me, but a local (well..couple hundred miles away) tuner whose services I've used.
skipro: Check your PMs
Dan: I didn't mean to infer by 'pony loss' that the topend was where the oem AS fell short. Ron did say something to the effect that it didn't work worth a hoot out of the box. Maybe maximum HP wasn't effected, but overall it pretty much stanketh.
Seal drivers: I have a pic of Dan's PVC seal pounder. For forks (not the subject, so this is a hijack?) I opted for the motion pro driver. The fact that it is a two piece driver is nice considering the 'stuff' you stack onto the tube and then separately drive into the lower leg. Dan's shock driver has a slot cut into it that could accomplish the same purpose.
re: anodizing
If shock maintenance is done as it should be (and usually is not), piston/body wear isn't an issue. Not sez me, but a local (well..couple hundred miles away) tuner whose services I've used.
skipro: Check your PMs
- Thread starter
- #33
Ron just e-mailed me. Head is milled and shaped, stock Air Stryker carb modified, air screw in stock. Everything is in the mail to me this morning. I might even get it in Saturday's mail, for testing on Sunday. Ron is great to have hopped on this so quickly. Set up to be delivered as:
Mixture Screw set at 7/8 turn out
CEK Needle / Clip # 3
# 40 Pilot
# 152 Main
More reporting to come....
Mixture Screw set at 7/8 turn out
CEK Needle / Clip # 3
# 40 Pilot
# 152 Main
More reporting to come....
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- Thread starter
- #34
Everything arrived this morning in Saturday's mail. However, my local shop won't get my new head gasket in until Tuesday. The AS carb is pretty and it was interesting to compare the two side by side. The head is definately milled down, (about .02 I think) and the squish band milled as well the rest I can't tell except it is clean enough to have been milled. I just can't see the machining marks to say for sure. Ron sent a note with the head saying he set it up for race gas AND altitude. I suspect he allowed for the lower ambient pressures at 3000 ft + that I ride at. The carb mounts up fairly easily with the tank off, but with the DF reed cage, it won't be easy to change jets if and when I need to. I should be back with my first ride report on Wednesday, Friday evening at the latest since I don't work Fridays and can play around with it then.
Jerry
Jerry
89kdx200rdr
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- Apr 19, 2003
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whatever ron put in the carb as far as jets will be amazingly close. dont know how he does it. and you wont see any machining marks if the job was done by a good machinist. which i think ron is.
Your "old" head gasket will work just fine if you've not ruined it. I've probably gotten 10 re-uses from one on one of my KXs and The stock one is still on my current kdx and is on it's 3rd time around --spray it with either coppercote or silver aluminum paint, both sides , allow to almost dry then install. There's virtually no reason to install a new one.
- Thread starter
- #37
Thanks Rob!
I noticed that the stock gasket has a silicon rubber type film on it.
I've heard that using a very thin layer of high temp RTV on both sides of the gasket would work as well but I've not confirmed that. Anyone try that as well?
I don't have any coppercote on hand but I do have aluminum paint. Would I need to remove the RTV like film that is on it now before painting it?
I noticed that the stock gasket has a silicon rubber type film on it.
I've heard that using a very thin layer of high temp RTV on both sides of the gasket would work as well but I've not confirmed that. Anyone try that as well?
I don't have any coppercote on hand but I do have aluminum paint. Would I need to remove the RTV like film that is on it now before painting it?
- Thread starter
- #39
O.K. I'm convinced; reuse the gasket, I get it. Thanks Dan and thanks again Rob. The coating is now off and I'm now wondering if it makes a difference to use the aluminum paint, or wait until the morning for some coppercoat. If I use the aluminum paint, I can work on it tonight. Otherwise Kragen or NAPA in the morning for coppercoat.
The neighbors would probably prefer I use the coppercoat because I KNOW I won't be able to resist startin' her up tonight.
The neighbors would probably prefer I use the coppercoat because I KNOW I won't be able to resist startin' her up tonight.
- Thread starter
- #43
Greg, You can bet I will be posting my results. Hopfully as soon as the grin wears off my face.
This will have to wait 'til mornin though 'cause I forgot I need to make me a gasket for the water spout Ron removed when milling the head. I've used the cardboard from a box of cereal before with some form-a-gasket, but not tonight. Auto parts store first thing for gasket material and a small can of FRESH aluminum paint. Any brand recommendation on the aluminum paint? I just checked and the stuff I have is KRYLON hobby/craft enamel paint CHROME, not aluminum.
This will have to wait 'til mornin though 'cause I forgot I need to make me a gasket for the water spout Ron removed when milling the head. I've used the cardboard from a box of cereal before with some form-a-gasket, but not tonight. Auto parts store first thing for gasket material and a small can of FRESH aluminum paint. Any brand recommendation on the aluminum paint? I just checked and the stuff I have is KRYLON hobby/craft enamel paint CHROME, not aluminum.
- Thread starter
- #44
While we are all waiting for test results I suggest anyone interested in the RB Modified Air Stryker carb or anyone wishing to improve performance of their power band, read this link Be forwarned, it isn't for the faint of heart. By the second page things start to gel together and make sense. The men who participated in this thread have done all of us a great favor with all their testing on the KDX and this carb. It was put into the archives and the only way I found it was playing in the KDX forum, I discovered that it is possible to sort the threads by the number of people who have read them. This one came near the top but was moved. I am grateful to have found it before I even started to test out my carb. Now I know what is happening if the performance isn't what I expect and how to change it. Thanks guys!
http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=19686&page=1&pp=40
Edit: Here is a sample of what you can find in this monster thread:
http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=19686&page=1&pp=40
Edit: Here is a sample of what you can find in this monster thread:
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That thread is a great resource for jet needle and jetting changes period. You don't have to have a RB-carb mod to get a lot of useful info from it.
Another choice quote...
From one of James Dean
David,
With the CGK needle giving an MX like hit using the stock carb, a CGL should reduce the hit, smoothing it and produce a similar effect to cutting the slide. Do you have a CGL to try and compare before altering a slide? Probably with 1 step richer on the clip to balance the transition with leaner/richer.
I have noticed that older PWK carbs (89-97) typically will use the CG- needles whereas newer models usually are better with CE- needles. I wonder if there has been an internal dimension (nozzle height) that has changed or this may just be the result of the trend towards more cutaway.
If you try the BEK and BEL, keep in mind the taper starts 1.8mm higher from the CG- to CE- and approx. another 1.3mm from the CE- to BE- conversion(did the taper calculation in a previous post 7/31). The clip position will need to be about 3 steps higher to compensate or it will run richer at 1/4-1/2 throttle. I am thinking a BGK or BGL would be the direction to go with the older carb and BEK or BEL with a newer model carb.
The reservation I have about using any "A" taper needle is that it will give flat or weak power at 1/2-3/4 throttle under load(with no divider plate). It will rev quick with no load which will sound great in neutral, but climbing hills will leave a rider fanning the clutch.
A multi-taper needle starting out with an A or B taper is a very good idea and sounds like you were thinking about it already. That can get very delicate and some manufacturers flounder around with it every few years usually satisfying a few of the fastest riders at the expense of the average riders fouling plugs. Another subject in itself.
James
-Maurice
Another choice quote...
From one of James Dean
David,
With the CGK needle giving an MX like hit using the stock carb, a CGL should reduce the hit, smoothing it and produce a similar effect to cutting the slide. Do you have a CGL to try and compare before altering a slide? Probably with 1 step richer on the clip to balance the transition with leaner/richer.
I have noticed that older PWK carbs (89-97) typically will use the CG- needles whereas newer models usually are better with CE- needles. I wonder if there has been an internal dimension (nozzle height) that has changed or this may just be the result of the trend towards more cutaway.
If you try the BEK and BEL, keep in mind the taper starts 1.8mm higher from the CG- to CE- and approx. another 1.3mm from the CE- to BE- conversion(did the taper calculation in a previous post 7/31). The clip position will need to be about 3 steps higher to compensate or it will run richer at 1/4-1/2 throttle. I am thinking a BGK or BGL would be the direction to go with the older carb and BEK or BEL with a newer model carb.
The reservation I have about using any "A" taper needle is that it will give flat or weak power at 1/2-3/4 throttle under load(with no divider plate). It will rev quick with no load which will sound great in neutral, but climbing hills will leave a rider fanning the clutch.
A multi-taper needle starting out with an A or B taper is a very good idea and sounds like you were thinking about it already. That can get very delicate and some manufacturers flounder around with it every few years usually satisfying a few of the fastest riders at the expense of the average riders fouling plugs. Another subject in itself.
James
-Maurice
canyncarvr
~SPONSOR~
- Oct 14, 1999
- 4,005
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Well? How'd it work?
Let me know what the head volume change was. (just curious)
Post your take on the DEK, too.
Give CEK-4 a try, too.
Let me know what the head volume change was. (just curious)
Post your take on the DEK, too.
Give CEK-4 a try, too.
Here's another one to save
http://dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=87460&highlight=carbs
http://dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=87460&highlight=carbs
- Thread starter
- #48
I desided that since I would be getting a new head gasket on tuesday anyway, I would wait until then to put everything together. Sorry for the delay. I also am fighting a bad sinus head cold and the meds make me dizzy. I didn't want to make a mistake on reassembly. I feel better now and should have at least a run or two up and down the street to report on for Wednesday. Ron started me on a CEK-3, 152main and 40pilot. I think that will be too rich but will start there anyway. I didn't get a DEK needle as I didn't want to be tempted to make too many changes at once. Once I get the main set right, I will play with the clip on the CEK, probably from 3 to 4, then the pilot. By then I will have a feel for the carb and head. I noticed you used to run a BEL, CC. What was your reasoning for changing from that to the DEK and what did you find objectionable with the CEK? I think because I have a 220, and a milder origional port over the 200, my jetting will not be as "exciting" as the 200 porting or the Fredette work you have on top of that. I'm shooting for a linear power delivery without a suprise hit in any of the powerband.
I got some more modeling clay today to take a volume impression of my milled head. I still am looking for a graduated cylinder to measure it's displacement of water for a cc displacement reading.
Wibby: thanks for the link. Man, this place is a weath of information that really adds to the enjoyment of owning and riding a dirtbike.
I got some more modeling clay today to take a volume impression of my milled head. I still am looking for a graduated cylinder to measure it's displacement of water for a cc displacement reading.
Wibby: thanks for the link. Man, this place is a weath of information that really adds to the enjoyment of owning and riding a dirtbike.
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In response to mOrie,.....Well, is it true that there's a difference between the pre-'97 PWK and the '97 and newer? This might answer some questions I have as to why my jetting ('95) is so much different then some of yours. Any comment would be much appreciated.
Rhodester said:
Ironically the post that follows the one I selected out explains whats going on. http://dirtrider.net/forums3/showpost.php?p=155755&postcount=64 Basically the nozzle height inside the carb is lower in the older 89-97 carbs than it is in the later Airstryker derived 97+ carbs. Generally speaking that change seems to require a richer jetting setup (and slightly different needle selection) on the older carbs. Also the slide on your 95 carb should be a #6 vs a #5 like the later carbs, the #6 being a leaner slide. Not quite an apples to apples comparison. I've been reading up on it and i'm starting the jetting process on my bike now that i've got it rebuilt and broke-in.
-Maurice
