2-stroke Off-Road Ban 2006?

[Jay-R]

I have read in this month's copy of MXRacer that starting in 2006, 2-strokes will not be allowed to ride in public riding areas in the US. They will, however, be allowed in closed course racing events.

Does anyone have more info on this? :think

If this is true, my next bike will have to be a 4-stroke.

 

[MXP1MP]

I don't see how this is true, I'd only believe it if it was being said by like AMA or BRC. And the rule is it would only be bikes made from 2006 on as 2 strokes couldn't be on public lands bikes older would be grand fathered in. Personally I don't want it to happen at all its just a scam to lock us out once again.

 

[Jay-R]

At first glance, I agree with you, and I certainly hope that this is the case. But, if this were AMA, the bikes wouldn't be allowed in competition.

To me, this means that 2-strokes can race, but can't ride off-road. So, MX bikes can be produced but can not be ridden anywhere except the track. What does this do to 2-stroke enduro bikes? Also, most people that I know ride their MX bikes on trails and MX. This means that very few people will buy 2-stroke MX bikes if they can not ride them on trails. I hope that if there is some kind of ban, it allows older bikes to be grandfathered in.

The magazine did not really have much of a write up on this, so I don't know any details. I hope that I am way off base with my understanding.

 

[MXP1MP]

Do are search on this under like epa ban 2006 you'll find alot more detailed info.

 

[Jay-R]

Thanks for the information. I found exactly what I wanted to know. It looks like the 4-stroke is the future, but the 2-strokes we have now will carry us for a while.:cool:

 

[Dave Wood]

This is an emission issue, NOT a TWO-STROKE issue! Do not allow yourselves to be misled, it also affects FOUR-STROKES. The EPA is reducing the emissions standards to similar levels, which the California Air Resources Board (CARB) inacted in 1997. Few competition FOUR STROKES meet this regulation. KTM has there "GREEN" version which does.

Dave Wood

 

[BSWIFT]

YOU CAN HAVE MY TWO STROKE WHEN YOU CAN PRY MY COLD DEAD HANDS OFF OF THE HAND GRIPS!

 

[HomeMadeSin]

EPA Nonsense

Here's a little more detail:

New regulations contained in the EPA's "Notice of Proposed Rulemaking on the Control of Emissions from Nonroad Large Spark Ignition Engines and Recreational Engines," could mean the demise of even "clean burning" recreational two-stroke dirt-bikes, all-terrain vehicles (***s), and snowmobiles by 2006. :mad: :mad: :mad:

This must be some of the continuing legacy of Slick Willy & Granola Boy:debil: If the motorcycle lobbyists and manufacturers (including C'dale -US) bitch enough, maybe Dubya will make the EPA cool off!

Go here to send 'em your thoughts:

http://capwiz.com/share/issues/alert/?alertid=69673

 

[HomeMadeSin]

More Info on the proposal

Go here for the FAQ's. Basically, you can keep riding that 500CC 2 stroke!

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/nonroad/proposal/f01025.htm:uh:

 

[bake]

Well put bswift... makes me glad I live in Canada somedays ;)

bake

 

[singletracker500]

Originally posted by BSWIFT
YOU CAN HAVE MY TWO STROKE WHEN YOU CAN PRY MY COLD DEAD HANDS OFF OF THE HAND GRIPS!

Amen brother!!

bake...if this does happen, you may have a lot of new dirtbike buds in your neighborhood! ;) You got any desert up there!! :)

 

[KTMdude911]

BSWHIFT is right those stupid treehugers blow everything out of porportion.I'm not given mine up no time soon.

 

[bake]

We got desert and we got mountains, awesome valley floors, tracks, river beds. We are truly blessed except when this white stuff freezes us solid in our tracks!

 

[A-Tek]

In Kentucky there are not enough public riding areas (two) to make a dent in 2 cycle riding. It is all private land and tracks , the hare scrambles are closed course and the MX tracks are also closed course. Unless they ban the manufacture of them there may be states that won`t see an impact.

I doubt that a nascar meets emission regs , how about the local stock car tracks? Do you think they run a catalytic converter on those cars? Cars that dont meet emission standards can`t operate on public roads but you can run them anywhere else you like.

There are states out west with large public riding areas that will see an impact in 2006 but it still may be a ways off for some of the rest of us.

If things don`t change I`m sure it will get to everyone but I wouldn`t panic just yet. If the 4-strokes keep improving like they have for the past few years they won`t have to ban 2 strokes , we will all change on our own.

 

[derekb_55]

Isn't there a rule that if the bike doesn't have lights, is more than 50cc, and has more than 10 inches of suspension it is exempt from the rule? If that is the case very few bikes would be effected (KDX,EXC). I don't know if that is right though.

So Canada doesn't plan on banning 2 strokes? woo-hoo

 

[RedBull]

do they really think they can just take are bikes from us or somthing?? de have to stage a full scale revolt!!!!! never will they take my 2 smoke! i woulkd go insane not being able to smell that bean oil!

 

[mxracer724]

I have also heard that the manufactors are going to stop making 2 strokes in the futre because they don't meet the Emission of 2006, but that seems weird to me when the MX 4 strokes don't meet the standards either. I have a 250f (although I won't any more because my dad's truck broke down and I have to sell it and get a cheaper used bike so my dad can use the money on a new truck:debil: ) and it just doesn't make any sense that they would get rid of the 2 strokes because like I said no MX bikes meet the standards, so I hope that even if the standards do change the manufactors still make 2 strokes. I like both 2 and 4 strokes, they are different, and I would hate to see the 2 stroke gone. They have something a 4 stroke never will even though the new mx 4 strokes are sweet they still will never be the same as 2 strokes, and I'm not saying that is a bad thing, but it's nice to be able to choose.

 

[CanadianRidr]

Ill go one on one combat with every single last greenie before they grab my 2-stroke:p
Last time I checked the CR does not smoke near as much as a good old Kenworth ;)

 

[KnobShredder]

Save the Earth - Plant a Mall

It's pretty obvious that women are winning the war. How else can you explain 73 shopping malls within 100 square miles of my house, but only 1 motocross track?!

Laying cement over 100 acres of earth for a new shopping mall has a far greater and longer impact on the earth than any exhaust smoke from my 2stroke motorcycle.

Noise affects the environment alot more than unburned hydrocarbons. How come the noisy 4strokes aren't being targeted?

SUV's are a plague on the planet. Not only do they get 10-14 mpg, they take up lots of space in a shrinking earth, hogging lanes, blocking visibility and leaving a huge rusty carcass when they die. I don't hear a single word being said about regulating them. Ford Navigator-driving soccer moms and the like wielding huge amounts of power in this country - no doubt they're winning the war...it's only a matter of time befoe complete capitulation

 

[yardpro]

Ill go one on one combat with every single last greenie before they grab my 2-stroke

wouldn't that be fun. they're wimps anyway, it would almost be toooooo easy.

 

[WoodsRider]

Originally posted by bake
We are truly blessed except when this white stuff freezes us solid in our tracks!

Haven't you ever heard of the Numb Bum?

Truespode (Ivan) - You are correct about the Sierra Club (you must also watch The History Channel). One thing to remember, when the Sierra Club was founded, it's original intent was far from the radical activism we associate them with today. The Sierra Club was originally founded to help introduce city dwellers to outdoor activities such as hiking, camping and x-country skiing. During the 60's they began protesting logging, especially in the California redwoods and other areas that were "unprotected" at the time. It was during this time when the Sierra Club discovered the power of litigation.

 

[nephron]

I'll probably comment more on this later, but I'm currently reading a paper from the Montana Department of Environmental Quality that is a recent analysis of evolving 2 stroke technology. It's basically a review of evolving technology today and covers the plus's/minus's & potential focal points of future research & development. What I have read thus far has reviewed all of the US patent data on 2 cycle engines. The activity is increasing yearly, and most of the patent applications focus on improving emissions. Oddly, there's a lot of focus on the aft carb.:eek: But the majority of successful designs thus far incorporate DI & 3 way catalytic converters.

I might add that the Kawasaki Ultra 130 uses the Ficht DI technology & has resulted in a 70-80% reduction in THC/CO emissions in comparison to the Ultra 150 (watercraft). Thus, yes Kawi, has already mastered this issue--that type of reduction in emissions is plenty good enough to achieve 2006 criteria, from what I understand. (I could be wrong--couldn't find the exact numbers).
On a side note, of course the DI setup could not make as much power as the 4 single downdraft CARBS of the Ultra 150. :D

So no, the development of the 2 stroke is not yet over. One might even postulate that Kawi is reluctant to develop a 4 stroke based on their confidence in future emissions-efficient 2 stroke designs.

 

[mxracer724]

Thanks Nephron...

You've given a little light to guys with 2 strokes. Like I said I hope that the manufactors keep 2 strokes alive, because they are starting to evolve to keep up with the powerful 4 strokes. Just look at the new 2002 250's the KTM has 49.9 HP's in hot conditions, and the honda and yamaha are up there with 47 and 46 hp's! I'm waiting for the 125's to get the same kind of upgrades soon. It would be a shame to see all that hard work of making the 2 strokes so light and so fast to have them just be dropped in the garbage like moldy bread. I see a bright future for 2 smokes if they keep them around.

 

[nephron]

This discussion should really be taking place in the tech forum, but I should qualify all that by saying that if the "sole" goal is to reduce emissions to the lowest point possible, whilst maintaining some degree of equivalency with 4 strokes in terms of HP/wt ratios, etc.--I think 2 strokes are doomed. Particularly if the "holy grail" of 2 smoke design is not achieved--a cleaner burning alternative lubricant. Right now, 4 cycle technology is certainly not at its pinnacle, yet their power to weight ratios "as is" are damn near, if not equivalent to current 2 strokes. If one were to apply FI & catalytic converters to current 2 strokes (from data I've seen), less torque/hp certainly would result. That would put them on equal basis with 4 strokes in terms of emissions output, but performance would suck. Since DFI in 4 strokes is only a matter of time, which will in my opinion improve 4 stroke performance as well as emissions, 2 strokes will fall behind another notch.

I really think the only way 2 strokes are going to survive beyond the next 10-20 years (dirtbike applications only) is if the EPA accepts less rigid emissions criteria for 2 smokes &/or a cleaner burning lubricant is designed. On the other hand, they'll obviously persist in chainsaws & such--unless the Wankel motor is brought back.:eek:

Anyway, that's all probably wrong. But oh well, it's just what I see from my seat.

 

[Rodzilla]

Re: Save the Earth - Plant a Mall

Noise affects the environment alot more than unburned hydrocarbons. How come the noisy 4strokes aren't being targeted?

[/B]

They are my friend, you need to look at the big picture. Exhaust, noise, erosion are all being targeted. But each is a separate battle. Don't kid yourself.

Yes, noise is a problem and yes it is a form of pollution, to say it does MORE damage than the exhaust? Well that's a debate for another day in anoter forum.