Advice on needle

[dsndblm]

I recently did a WOT chop and found the main to be a bit lean. I installed a 152 main and the plug looks good now. But at lower rpms the bike burbles and four strokes some. :|
I have a 42 pilot installed now. The needle clip is 4th from the top. I want to fine tune with a new needle, I have the stock one installed now. I read Dave's chart and understand the theory on tapers etc. I dont have the time and extra cash to spend on needles as I have jets. Can anyone recommend a basic starting point on a new needle? I ride tight trails and rocky slow technical areas with an occasional let her rip :laugh:
Any advice or opinions appreciated :worship:

David

 

[Colorado Mike]

"The needle clip is 4th from the top." How about lowering the needle you have a notch or two and see what that does for you? could be a cheap way to lean it for you.

Good Luck,
Mike.

 

[G. Gearloose]

I want to fine tune with a new needle,

I dont have the time and extra cash to spend on needles as I have jets.

Well, which is it? :think:

Curious...consider how much time a casual woods & rocks rider spends riding on the main vs the needle, wouldn't you want to put 20:1 more effort fixing your low and midrange?

Drop the needle already, it appears to be within your budget.

If a $5 needle is holding you back, are you certain you picked the right sport?

 

[dsndblm]

Well, which is it? :think:

Curious...consider how much time a casual woods & rocks rider spends riding on the main vs the needle, wouldn't you want to put 20:1 more effort fixing your low and midrange?

Drop the needle already, it appears to be within your budget.

If a $5 needle is holding you back, are you certain you picked the right sport?

Just wanted to know which $5 needle to buy! :bang:

 

[Wolf]

Tell me what needles you are after, I have a substantial selection of needles here that are collecting dust. I maybe able to help you out for less than 5 bucks.
If you are on the 4th, try leaning it out with that needle first. It will help you determine which direction to go from there.
Happy jetting!

 

[dsndblm]

Wolf

Thanks for the offer. Looks like I need the R1369E listed for the 88 model. Is this a different needle than the 1173N? Thanks for the civilized reponse earlier.

 

[Wolf]

I'll have to figure out what that translates into for the Sudco needles...

 

[Wolf]

G. Gearloose, why the hostility?

"If a $5 needle is holding you back, are you certain you picked the right sport?"

 

[dsndblm]

Wolf

I cant imagine the needles being different for my 88. I have tons of jets for riding in different elevations here in Az (1200ft to 8000ft) and they are the same as the newer PWK carbs.

 

[JasonWho]

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[dsndblm]

JasonWho

Thanks!! I guess I'm not long winded enough sometimes. The 88 is too rich 1/8 to 1/4 throttle. I tried a 40 pilot and the engine reved out of control as soon as started. Air screw makes some difference but not enough for my liking. I have a good selection of jets for different elevations as I said before. The problem area follows all jetting. I'll look at the chart and go one size leaner. What else is unique to the 88 carbs? Does your 87 have a Keinhin or Mikuni as my 86 did?

 

[JasonWho]

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[Rhodester]

This may be different for your '88, But my '95 with a PWK 35 the 1/8 to 1/4 throttle range is most effected by the slide cutaway. That's good and that's bad: It's free to grind and polish your slide (throttle valve) to the next cutaway shape, but it's bad if you don't know what you're doing. Sudco sells slides for roughly $60.00.

Needle diameter seems (on my bike) to effect 1/8 and below in the throttle position. Next comes slide cutaway for 1/8 to 1/3 throttle (roughly) then taper and main jet as well as clip position come into play. As you experiment you'll see that a main jet change will effect the full range clear down to below 1/8 throttle. Same with the clip position. A too blubbery situation below 1/8 throttle may clean up by dropping the needle (as has been stated). You may need to compensate for the needle drop by running a richer main jet (to keep it from being too lean at more open throttle positions). Play with it, test ride, and be sure to log the results. Have fun!

 

[G. Gearloose]

Just wanted to know which $5 needle to buy! :bang:

The pilot won't affect your 1/8 to 1/4 much at all, its most effective to 0-1/8 throttle. Clip is very effective in the 1/4 throttle range, more so with the 13 vs 11 (C vs B) needles.

As been said already, first verify for us what number is stamped on your slide. If it is a 6, you should be able to set it up like many 89-94 riders.

Make certain your 40 pilot and pilot circuit is not partially restricted; It sounds to me it shouln't have run away with that combo. (unless your slide is > 6, or has already been ground open) Don't coun't out the 40 pilot yet, reply with your slide info for us to stew over.

I suspect you could be happy to have a CGK in your toolbox, or better yet, in your carb. Start using a pilot around 42, you will likely need to go smaller still.

Like Wolf and Rhodester sez, drop that needle you have, don't be alarmed if it runs better with the clip on # 1, Even at clip 1, its still richer than other rider's combinations at sea level.

If it keeps running better as you approach clip 1, and your looking for more, then buy a CGK. If clip 1 on the 1368 goes too lean, then skip the CGK.

 

[dsndblm]

Thanks for all the input guys! I dropped the clip to the leanest position last night. It does better but , we are in the Monsoon season here and it was hot (109) and very humid last night, not typical of usual riding conditions for me. I’ll try it again tonight and get results weather permitting. The slide is a 6, I doubt it has been modified. The bike was bone stock when I bought it in 93. I will disassemble the carb tonight again and clean to make sure something isn’t plugging the pilot circuit and try the 40 pilot. I had a problem with fuel running out the overflow tube a couple of weeks ago. I found some gooey slime on the needle and seat; it may have something to do with the oil I use and the summer additives in our gas here. The new needle is ordered, I will post results.

 

[JasonWho]

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[G. Gearloose]

Another consideration diagnosing the runaway idle is if the bike has a lot of hard time on it, the carb body may be getting worn permitting too much air to sneak by the slide at idle..

 

[dsndblm]

I got a CGK and a CCK along with some chain lube, $15.00 min order ya know! Got them from Sudco. Good point about the slide being worn Thanks again.

 

[JasonWho]

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[dsndblm]

The shipping was around 6 bucks to get the parts here tomorrow. Not a bad deal.

 

[JasonWho]

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[G. Gearloose]

If anyone is looking to pad their minimum order, I recommend getting some extra c-clips, washers, a fresh float needle, plastic cable retainer, and that thingy that holds it all together that screws into the slide and the cable hooks onto, I've had that poorly cast piece frag while unscrewing it under modest pressure. :(