AMA supports ban on plated dirt bikes

Geoff

Member
Oct 9, 2000
11
0
As much of our trail system has been closed, we use our plated bikes for getting from one trail to the next.
The AMA's position on conversions will soon end our ability to ride "trail to trail" on a decent bike(XR/WR/KTM EXC....).
I am not sure that I can support my membership with the AMA.

Tell the AMA what you think:

membership@ama-cycle.org

Copied from another forum:


Dear John & Scott,

As you probably know the allowance of "conversions" varies greatly state to
state. Thus, the AMA rules for a dual sport run require that dual sport
motorcycles comply with all state requirements for road use. (It should be
noted that the rules for a dual-sport run are in the AMA "on-road" rule book,
not the "off-road" rule book. From an activities perspective the AMA sees dual
sport bikes as first and foremost on-road motorcycles.) Yes, some states will
let you "get away with more" than the others but those states may be in error.

Some of the bikes being converted are manufactured and marketed as closed-course
only machines. They are marketed as competition only so that they will be
exempt from EPA noise and emissions standards under the Clean Air Act. The WR
will not meet the EPA emissions standards for highway use (in fact it will not
even meet the minimum standards for a "green" sticker in California for
"unrestricted" off-road use). And just because someone has installed an after
market lighting kit on a bike does not mean that it is truly in compliance with
US DOT.

I realize that the specific situation that we are talking about is very
frustrating for the bike owner, so let me explain why it is so important that we
try to do the right thing. The EPA asked some very specific question of us
about the dual-sport conversion issue (YES, they know what has been going on).
One thing that they had considered doing to prevent riders from exploiting this
"grey" area was to limit access to competition models. Thus, only riders with
"professional" credentials would have access to "competition models", such as
the WR. So, the AMA and other concerned motorcyclists have spend the better
part of the last two years convincing the EPA that motorcyclists are responsible
enough to buy competition only models for competition, recreation models for
trail riding and street legal bikes when they intend to go dual-sporting.

As a fellow dual-sporter let me just say that there may have been a time when
there were not a lot of (competent off-road) dual-sports to choose from; but,
that time is no more. There are some great legal (and quiet ) dual-sports
available. As I have often commented about the bone stock dual-sport that I
ride, "if you can't get it done on this thing, then you had better look into
another sport".

If you want to talk about any of this in more detail please call me.

Good luck,

Royce L. Wood
Legislative Affairs Specialist
American Motorcyclist Association
13515 Yarmouth Drive
Pickerington, OH 43147
(614) 856-1900 ext. 1225
 

maicomotoman

Member
Dec 16, 2001
157
0
The WR will not meet the EPA emissions standards for highway use
And the legally registered "cruisers" that are running around with open pipes are? UN-F*****G BELIEVABLE.:mad: Who's side are these guys on anyway?:moon: AMA :moon:
 

IBWFO

Member
Aug 5, 2001
367
0
I think what the AMA is "Trying" to do is at least have a voice with the EPA.
We are NOT going to beat these guys (EPA) with brawn or muscle. It will have to be with "smarts" and some cash. The ECO lovers have the cash, but I'm not sure they have the smarts. We need to become more involved, vote in the guys who "THINK" like we do and vote "OUT" those that Don't!
I own a cruiser, several dirt-bikes, 4 wheelers jet skis and a boat.
I take my toys seriously, take the time to find out what my local state and fed reps stand for and Vote accordingly.
I get where some of you are coming from with the AMA, but without them (the AMA lobby is a good one) we will be in deep do-do.

D

D
 

maicomotoman

Member
Dec 16, 2001
157
0
but without them (the AMA lobby is a good one) we will be in deep do-do.
I agree with you there. In my situation, though, it makes more sense to ride the three miles to the trail than to drive. Or to ride between trails. What uses more gas and emits more pollutant: a 400 cc motorcycle or a 351 ci cargo van? Scratching my head...
 

motomike137

Member
Nov 21, 2001
181
0
It seems like the AMA is only referring to their organized events here, ones where they could possibly be held legally responsible for what goes on. What you manage to get away with on your own in your own riding local is your business. The AMA may not be perfect but they have done an awful lot for motorcycling over the years.
 

kmccune

2-Strokes forever
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jul 3, 1999
2,726
1
My reply:
***************
Re: Plated Dirt Bikes.

I understand what Royce L. Wood is trying to do, but I believe that you are selling our (dirt bikers)interests short. The reason that we are putting plates on off road models is that the manufacture's are putting crap on the street. XL650L... come on it is a tank! If the manufacturers would just make a capable bike that was worthy to ride off road, this practice would basically stop! It does not have to be a fire breather it just has to be light weight, well suspended, good handling, "reasonably" powerful and of course it has to LOOK capable as well.

While I respect your point of view, you are there to represent US and I believe that you have not fully explored the topic enough to even understand the WHY of dirt bike conversions! We are not trying to hurt the environment, nor are we "law breakers or hell raisers". We simply enjoy the out doors in a different manner, one that you are threatening to let fall by the wayside. Remember that thousands of riders have AMA cards because they ride in the dirt. Please look into this further before cutting our life line.


Sincerely

Kevin McCune
*******************
I believe that it is not just the organized events as there is a mention of restricting certain bike to licensed professionals. :mad:


Kevin
 

kmccune

2-Strokes forever
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jul 3, 1999
2,726
1
Originally posted by dirtbike59
Hey Kevin would you mind if i sent a copy of your reply to them also. i would just change the name at the end.

Go for it... but I recieved a reply that I thought was pretty lame in his defence. It did kinda %$#@ me off a little as he was acting like a politition and not a bike activist. But maybe if he gets more letters it will make a difference. Just be sure that you believe what I said yourself. I'd hate to put the words in other mouths that they don't want in there!

Kevin
 

Tree Crippler

Member
Jun 8, 2000
136
0
What a bunch of crap! For years I had to own 2 bikes, one 2 stroke for racing Enduros and Hare Scrambles and one for riding in the National Dual Sports. I spent between 2 and 3 grand trying to make a DR350S race worthy and wasn't happy. Now I'm down to one street legal WR400 and they want to ruin what I've wanted for 13 years?
 

LocoCD

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Mar 22, 2000
352
0
I must have interpreted the reasoning differently because I tend to support the thinking. It seems to me the salient point of the letter was preservation of access to competition level bikes and not limitations on dual sports.

Many people in California scream about the hose job Red Stickers are to the sport without realizing it is a compromise that prevented a total ban on competition bikes.

Complain if you wish, drop the AMA if you see fit (but at least understand the context of their position), ride an illegal bike if you are sneaky... but ultimately we have to face the reality of a changing world. That world responds to negotiations, well thought out policy, relationships, cogent arguments, information and coordinated positive activism.

" F" them, "F" that, "F"ing loud Harleys, etc. gets you "F"ing nothing in the real world. If you don't beleive me visit the DMV.
 

kmccune

2-Strokes forever
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jul 3, 1999
2,726
1
Originally posted by LocoCD
. It seems to me the salient point of the letter was preservation of access to competition level bikes and not limitations on dual sports.

It was about limiting dual sport conversions on competition bikes in order to preserve the competition bikes them selves. It also stated that "As I have often commented about the bone stock dual-sport that I
ride, "if you can't get it done on this thing, then you had better look into
another sport"." Well he is wrong... the current crop of DS bikes are crap! I use my DS conversion to ride between trails that are not linked with out getting busted. It would be great if a decent DS bike existed (I would buy it) but it does not! I don’t believe that many people commute on DS conversions either, so we are not talking about much pollution compared to that Suburban that passed me on the way to work today.

My point is that this kind of thinking lets us become pawns to the eco’s. rather then fighting for our rights!

I am off my soap box now.


Kevin
 

dirtbike59

Sponsoring Member
Oct 12, 2000
76
0
i still don't get the point of that. the only thing i get is they don't want other than dual sport models only from getting road plates. If thats the point i jusee i got the DRZ 400e and the RMX 250 road legal. And that is the nice thing about NH i don't need a dual sport light kit to get plates.
 

kmccune

2-Strokes forever
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jul 3, 1999
2,726
1
Originally posted by dirtbike59
i still don't get the point of that. the only thing i get is they don't want other than dual sport models only from getting road plates. If thats the point i jusee i got the DRZ 400e and the RMX 250 road legal. And that is the nice thing about NH i don't need a dual sport light kit to get plates.

Correct, and those are not DS models! Starting to feel the squeeze yet?

Kevin
 

kmccune

2-Strokes forever
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jul 3, 1999
2,726
1
I really don’t know, I suppose it would depend on the wording like it seams that all laws do. I wish that laws and such were stated clearly and were 1 page long, then I could understand them!

Kevin
 

tigerowner

Member
Mar 3, 2002
331
0
I saw a responce letter to this topic on another forum and it seems that the subject is taken out of context and AMA does not support a ban. I believe the letter that got this started was regarding someone that could not participate in an AMA dual sport ride because they did not have a true dual sport. Officially sanctioned events need to follow rules or some group will make us all pay.
 

madwrench

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jan 31, 2002
46
0
YES--this letter is OUT OF CONTEXT!--this has to do with an AMA dualsport (essentially street) event---NOT an enduro or offroad event! Mr. Wood and the AMA were taken to task by DRN'rs on this letter already. Wood's letter is in response to a specific rider in a specific situation---the AMA does not "support" any "plated dirtbike ban". Mr. Wood has been contacted by another DRN member who started this same debate in another forum. Mr. Wood replied and his explanation was accepted as reasonable, though he was more than a little (rightfully) pissed about having to take time away from his other very immediate obligations such as keeping the Moab areas open to us (if you want to make a stink about something---call the governor of Utah instead of wasting time on this!).
I'll probably get flamed in one way or another for this, but--THIS LETTER IS OUT OF CONTEXT AND IS NOT A PROBLEM!! THE AMA IS NOT TRYING TO STOP CONVERSIONS!!
 

Tree Crippler

Member
Jun 8, 2000
136
0
The original letter was from a person in Iowa that bought a plated bike that was converted. The state of Iowa decides later they want to take the plate back from the second or third owner. After a lot of work 2 rejections and $807 the state of PA issued me a plate for my reconstructed motorcycle. I am within the guidelines of my state laws.
 
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Jason81

Member
May 2, 2001
68
0
I didnt realize that this was such a big deal...I think that the AMA needs to get away from being a promotions company (as with SX) and start to focus on setting all the eco-freeks in there place. How many dual-sport convertions are realy out there. I live in NE ohio and I have only ever seen two. I see them for sale nationaly some times but I have a hard time believing that this is even a avenue that the epa would choose to persue. Talk about nit-picking. Some people need to focus on the real issues and leave the guilty until proven inoccent alone.

conversation between the epa and his mom,

So son what did you do at school today... gee momit was great I beat up the smallest kid I could find and took away all his toys.
 

Tree Crippler

Member
Jun 8, 2000
136
0
Jason
I've been riding Dual Sports since they started. In the last couple of years its gone from seeing up to 5 converted bikes to seeing 100+ out of 400. I saw one group with 8 converted EXC 400/520 's several WR and DRZ dirt versions along with a couple of XR and KLX's.
 

ThumpinTahoe

Member
Jan 19, 2002
15
0
I bought my xr400 california bike specifically because I can use the conversion. No longer do I have to race to get away from the "cops" and put everyone in a dangerous situation. By having a plate I can relax when I am between trails on the dreaded tar and I can even wave as smokey drives by. Not only does the state get a bunch of money, they can even identify who you are. Where I am, getting a plate was the right thing to do. 90% of the riders up here in Tahoe buy their bikes out of state (Nevada) get their ohv sticker for $20 and don't pay any sales tax or purchase a plate or green sticker. When they see the green police or the regular cops they high tail it out of there tearing up everything in their sites just to get away. This makes for bad impressions on dirt bikes in general. By buying a plate both sides are making out better. I love my plate and will hopefully never have to cough it up!
 

DualSportr

Member
Aug 22, 2000
527
0
Althought the alternatives the OEM's offer for dual sport machines is better than it used to be, they are still a compromise.

I think one reason some 'Dual Sporters' think that the OEM's offerings are perfect, and other 'Dual Sporters' don't, is that there are different types of dual sport riders. Some of us consider a ride with 20% pavement too much of the hard stuff, while others (say, some guy on a Beemer) consider 20% gravel a good day in the dirt.

The fellas who use the term 'dual sport' to describe a street bike which can handle two track reasonably well don't understand what us dirt bike riders use our 'dual sport' bikes for. Namely, riding two track between the single track! I don't think these two 'dual sport' factions understand each other very well.

I believe that about 90% of the conversions I've seen wouldn't cause even the strictest EPA official to turn his head - however, there's always the fella on the CR500 with the licence plate pop-riveted to the rear fender that makes the rest of us look bad.

I understand where the AMA is coming from when it comes to an AMA sanctioned event - they have rules (spark arrested, under 99 dB, etc), and ALL participants must comply (heck, we deal with the same thing at our Poker Run held on FS land).

However, if the AMA plans on taking this one step further and asking ALL users to comply with these requirements, I think they'll end up with a bigger fight on their hands than the 'loud pipes save lives' group they're dealing with now!

I'll tell you one thing, I sure as heck am NOT going to give up my Baja Design-kitted XR250R for some stupid steel tanked XL slug!
 

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