Anaheim 3 Results (spoiler)

WideOpen · Feb 1, 2004

250's

Pos. No. Rider name
1 14 Kevin W Windham
2 22 Chad Reed
3 5 Mike Larocco
4 20 Damon W Huffman
5 12 David Vuillemin
6 26 Michael Byrne
7 11 Ezra Lusk
8 8 Grant Langston
9 74 Erick Vallejo
10 27 Nicholas A Wey
11 28 Heath D Voss
12 36 Sean D Hamblin
13 31 Keith R Johnson
14 43 Ryan D Clark
15 30 Craig Anderson
16 3 Michael L Brown
17 106 Rodrig Thain
18 198 Isaiah V Johnson
19 220 Tiger Lacey
20 58 Tyler D Evans

125's

Pos. No. Rider name
1 29 Ivan Tedesco
2 62 Travis A Preston
3 21 Stephane Roncada
4 18 Brock Sellards
5 61 Troy K Adams
6 32 Andrew T Short
7 52 Greg S Schnell
8 514 Eric Nye
9 25 Nathan Ramsey
10 83 Michael R Blose
11 108 Joaquim Rodrigues
12 160 Ryan Morais
13 87 Jeff Gibson
14 65 Richie Owens
15 475 Jesse Casillas
16 263 Sean T Collier
17 56 Tim E Weigand
18 517 Hans M Neel
19 725 Logan Darien
20 706 Kris S Keefer
21 379 Adam M Mennenga
22 68 Joshua Hansen

both races tonight sounded great, cant wait for the tv broadcast

Thump · Feb 1, 2004

Both races sounded really good! Can't wait to see them tomorrow.

TheJunkMan · Feb 1, 2004

That was a pretty good race for once! but how bout that susuki question of the week during the 250cc race with Pastrana pull-ese the monkeys on the typewriters AND the sound man must have taken a coffee break.

Wraith · Feb 1, 2004

Looks like Reed got the short end of the the AMA's new (no contact) racing rule :joke: . I bet if the 10 point fine wasn't there he would have run it into KDub and have taken off :aj: . But instead he grabbed the brake and went down, which is COOOLLLLLLLL (in my book) :thumb:

CaptainObvious · Feb 1, 2004

Great racing this week. In fact, best racing of the season so far.

TwinSpar · Feb 1, 2004

This is the first race of the season I've caught on TV. It is truely a sad day in the sport. A great race until.... Reed "had" to shut it down so that he didn't touch KW.... and I'm a big KW fan. :|

Reed earned the right to stuff KW. Now I know why SX should be pre-empted by tiddlywinks. I guess ESPN2 was ahead of their time for "stuffing" SX for other proper/civilized sports. *** where is the puking emoticon when I need it?... Probably under protest of the AMA for being "too competitive in nature" ***

THIS SUCKETH! I actually had the time to catch a race and it's anything but. It was more a contest of proper manners on the track. :whiner:

I'm an old fart that plays on the track with people (usually) 10 years younger than I, and I can almost say that we might provide more excitement to the occasional bystander than the race I saw tonight. :what did I do with my PC tampon emoticon:

Huh... guess that code didn't work. :ugg:

jboomer · Feb 1, 2004

What an IRRESPONSIBLE thing to say TS! I think them NOT making contact made the race THAT much better! Look at the Tedesco/Roncada battle...IT could have put SR down several times, but in the end it made for a MUCH more exciting race. Are you saying Reed is normally a dirty rider that under different circumstances he would have put Windham down? How can you assume that Windham wouldn't have put him down sooner? Reed did a great job, as did Windham, BUT Windham was the better rider last night without ANYONE having to take a cheap shot! It's racing not demo-derby.

Okiewan · Feb 1, 2004

If no one can get away with contact, the racing will be just as good. Come into a corner too hot and fall unless you use another rider as a berm... oh well, that's how the rules are, live with it.

I liked how Reed said "kevin turned earlier than I thought he would"... uh... the line was obvious, it was hard pack it was so obvious. No biggie, but when you biff, just admit it. It sounds so much better.

TwinSpar · Feb 1, 2004

jboomer said:
Are you saying Reed is normally a dirty rider that under different circumstances he would have put Windham down? How can you assume that Windham wouldn't have put him down sooner? Reed did a great job, as did Windham, BUT Windham was the better rider last night without ANYONE having to take a cheap shot! It's racing not demo-derby.

JB,

I NEVER said Reed was a dirty rider. He had every right to "rub" up against KW in that corner. He "had" to fold his bike up under KW to avoid the assinine penalty(s) of touching KW. RonRon and Ivan (his TEAM MATE) put on a much better performance. I guess because they didn't have to worry about the team WHINING about brushing elbows with another team member. :I wish we still had the rolling eye emoticon about now... :

Okiewan said:
If no one can get away with contact, the racing will be just as good.

I CAN'T disagree MORE!

Okiewan · Feb 1, 2004

So you're saying there has to be contact for the racing to be good?
Sorry, I think you're way off base.

mxer842 · Feb 1, 2004

i agree with okie on this... it should be the smartest rider that wins, not the one who straps a cattleguard to his front fender, locks his right wrist, and plows through people... you should win by being faster, smarter, and more strategic than the next guy.

fender92883 · Feb 2, 2004

BUT, if you make a perfectly legal block pass and the 'b-ee' goes down, do you lose 10 points? What if they play it out to make it look worse? I don't like to see take-out moves, and I don't like to see riders crash, but I DO love to see somebody get stuffed in the corner without any other option but to let the other person go past. Now a lot of the riders appear to be too afraid to do it. I agree, both of those races were INCREDIBLY exciting, both were the best I've seen this season, but I still don't like to see the riders overly cautious like that. I like to see it kept clean, but I also like to see those gutsy moves! As long as there's no intention of parking or harming another rider, it's all good to me!

kiwi_925 · Feb 2, 2004

How much longer will them not rubbing or touching each other will be interesting to see, and who will be the first to do it.

HiG4s · Feb 2, 2004

"As long as there's no intention of parking . . . "
Well after the race Kdub admitted it WAS intentional, that is why he lost 10 points,, get over it.

"How much longer will them not rubbing or touching each other will be interesting to see. . . "

In my opioning, forever!!! I've been watching supercross since the early 80s and I've never liked the NASCAR rubbing is racing attitude. These are motorcycles, it is much more dangerous to make contact,, how often do you see Superbike or MotoGP racers bump each other?

jboomer · Feb 2, 2004

There were several instances of riders taking each other wide in the corners or pushing each other high up on the berm to force the pass and that's GOOD racing. Unintentionally banging into someone is understandable, especially on a rough, tight track at the speeds these guys are running. But, I think it's pretty obvious SOME of the time when a rider puts another down intentionally. It's when you enter into that gray area where assessing penalties for wrong doing will be EXTREMELY difficult. But, it's a necessary evil imho. Any one of those riders could have put their competition on the ground. At that point, the race would have ended (the leader would have a 20 second headstart) and I could have caught the first 24 points of the SuperBowl.

"I NEVER said Reed was a dirty rider."

No, you didn't. You said:"Reed earned the right to stuff KW."

Stuff him by block passing, or stuff him by taking his front tire out? I don't recall Reed ever putting anyone down, nor having the need to. Saturday night, he was straight up beat. He didn't get desperate and take KW down. He even washed his own front end out and crashed just to prevent ramming KW. That's classy. I hate Reed, but he's a sportsman and I've got a lot of respect for him as one now. That's how you win fans.

nephron · Feb 2, 2004

TwinSpar--I agree with you.

The race was a good experience, but lacked that 'ho-down' feeling....kinda like church. Give me an unrestricted race with Hannah and Howerton any day. This argument is getting old.

It all continues to look too reserved. What I want to know is what was said in the pits after the 125 main, after ronron (God bless him) held Hot Sauce up for 10 laps, made contact several times--basically allowing Preston a chance to take them both.

Also, it looked like Preston caught them both, then 'cruised around' (his words) behind them without making a move. I wonder about his drive to win, sometimes.

Another thing that seems obvious is that DeCoster's on-off powerbanded RM's (or perhaps superiority of the 4 stroke on these west coast tracks?) can't hook up in front of those tight triples. Wey pulled back several times, and the camera focused on his rear tire at least once. Delivery or too much power or both? Will we see something different on the East coast tracks? (especially Atlanta?). That'll be an interesting one to follow.

Damn, Windham is strong. That guy can go through the whoops on his rear wheel. I'm not surprised with an individual race performance with him, but with his consistency and serious frickin' attitude these days. Good job, Kevin.

TwinSpar · Feb 2, 2004

Okiewan said:
So you're saying there has to be contact for the racing to be good?
Sorry, I think you're way off base.

I'm not saying that there "has" to be contact for racing to be good but when riders have to shut it down for fear of touching another rider or not executing a block pass.... it turns into a snore-fest. There are so few places to pass (in SX) to begin with. I'm all for clean racing but I'm also for some good ol' fashioned bar banging too. I'm not talking take-out moves either....

It's almost as if the racers now have "personal" space. How very PC! :ugg:

TwinSpar · Feb 2, 2004

jboomer said:
No, you didn't. You said:"Reed earned the right to stuff KW."

Stuff him by block passing, or stuff him by taking his front tire out?

Semantics of the language... I guess I meant to block pass.

I wish I had recorded the race so that I could go back and see it over (and with slow-motion). To me... it appeared that had he continued his line and speed, that he would have bumped KW (or pushed him up the berm).

Thump · Feb 2, 2004

TwinSpar said:
I'm not saying that there "has" to be contact for racing to be good but when riders have to shut it down for fear of touching another rider or not executing a block pass.... it turns into a snore-fest. There are so few places to pass (in SX) to begin with. I'm all for clean racing but I'm also for some good ol' fashioned bar banging too. I'm not talking take-out moves either....

On one hand I hear what you are saying and on the other I think you are sniffing glue. While I like to see bumping and gringing like Tedesco and SR in te 125, even the bump KW put on DV a few weeks ago, I don't like dirty riding. IMO thhe KW move on DV was not dirty riding, KW had the line and his intentinon was to make a pass not take out a rider.. but to say that w/o it the race becomes a snore fest? That was one of the best races I have seen in SX. As for so few places to pass in SX? WHAT? KW and CR passed each other several times, it was back and forth the whole way, it was like that in SanDiego too. I guess we were wathing different races.

slideways11 · Feb 2, 2004

At least there is Canadian MX to watch on speed, the Ken and Barbie show that they call supercross is to boring for me. And to make matters worse KW will win the championship by less than 10 points and then the AMA will have to give the championship to CR.

jboomer · Feb 2, 2004

To me... it appeared that had he continued his line and speed, that he would have bumped KW (or pushed him up the berm).

I did record it. I think you are right in assuming that Reed could have at least stayed up right without taking out KW. KW's foot looked to almost get caught up in Reeds front wheel, that's how close they came to each other. But, it appears that as Reed hit the last kicker coming into the turn, his back wheel kicked up, maybe preventing him from getting the braking he felt he needed to keep himself from nailing Windham. I think he either lost a little confidence (focus) there for a split second that he would have enough time to slow down to prevent hammering KW AND keep upright or was so hard on his brakes that the front end washed out. It's kinda tough to see....either way though he made an honest decision and I can respect that.

I think the reasoning behind the rule is good. Maybe the penalty is a little harsh (or at least should be tailorable to the severity of the incident AND if it appeared to be intentional or not), but I think the riders will test the waters a bit in the next few races in order to determine just how far the AMA will let them go. Yes they're riding a bit timid now, but it's taking some adjustment for them. They'll get it sorted out. I doubt the AMA wants the rule to be taken as far as it is now, they just want to prevent the kind of riding that puts EVERYONE at risk. It'll be all good soon enough.

Okiewan · Feb 2, 2004

but I think the riders will test the waters a bit in the next few races in order to determine just how far the AMA will let them go.

I'd say you can take K-Dub off that list, 10 more points and...

Add the 10 back in and we have a pretty close series.

AngryCandy · Feb 2, 2004

jboomer said:
I don't recall Reed ever putting anyone down, nor having the need to. Saturday night, he was straight up beat. He didn't get desperate and take KW down. He even washed his own front end out and crashed just to prevent ramming KW. That's classy. I hate Reed, but he's a sportsman and I've got a lot of respect for him as one now. That's how you win fans.

No, that's how you win championships. Reed is playing this very smartly. He knows the AMA does not want a questionable call and 10 point penalty assessment on Windham to possibly determine the champ. He knows full well that they will balance things out the very first time he makes the tiniest bit of contact.

fender92883 · Feb 2, 2004

HiG4s said:
"As long as there's no intention of parking . . . "
Well after the race Kdub admitted it WAS intentional, that is why he lost 10 points,, get over it.

I may have heard differently than you did, but when I heard KDub explain the incident he said he was taking a line that conflicted with DV's line, he never went into the corner intending to park DV, but he kept on his line that he committed to, even though it looked like they might hit. Maybe he wanted to make contact, but to knock DV off the track was not his intention. Intentional bumping is a part of SX racing...or at least it WAS. It's one of the things that makes those tight SX tracks so much fun to watch races on.

That's what made it a "clean move gone wrong" in my book, but everybody has a different opinion.

I'm sorry, but I didn't mean to resurrect the KW-DV argument, in fact I wasn't really referring to that incident at all. I was talking about the present and future of racing. What's done is done and I can't do anything about it and I'm not going to get anybody to change their mind. All I was trying to point out is that riders seem to be afraid to be aggressive and bump a little bit if they're going to be penalized for it, even if it was unintentional. My apologies.

Milk · Feb 2, 2004

Damn, Ain't this horse dead yet? You all are gonna beat the guts out of it! :P

Anaheim 3 Results (spoiler)

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