another holeshot thread, but differeent

yardpro · Jan 13, 2002

Having not experience with holeshot, I have a rather negative preception of them due to the flames about thier company's business practices. I emailed them and relayed this preception. I was rather shocked by the speed and tone of thier reply.

Here's the reply copied from my email:

thanks you for your thoughts. running a mail-order parts business for the last 20 years has been a learning curve. i do know what are exact costs are when it comes to shipping parts, yes it is costly and yes i seek the most completive prices with the best services for shipping i can but in the REAL world cheap is sometimes not the answer. we have just finishedour cost out of pocket for the year 2001 for shipping, the bottom line HOLESHOT is within 3% of what is the cost to ship out packages to customers and what we charged those customers for shipping (THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE THE LABOR TIME REQUIRED TO PICK, BOX AND FILL THE ORDER AVERAGE ABOUT 15 MINUTE PER ORDER) the handling charge of $6 covers the costs of=boxes, packing,tape,labels (yes we
recycle as much as we can), UPS daily pickup, equipment rental/leases and the most costly, credit card fee's charged HOLESHOT for accepting YOUR credit cards at this time 3 1/2% of the total sale. HOLESHOT has been in business since 1971 and a KTM dealer since 1977. we take pride in our business and how
we have delivered parts and service for the last 31 years. Hope this answers your question. yes we have read all of the negative responses on all of the boards many are lies, comments taken out of context, from people who want to start a problem were none exist.

I found the response to be friendly, articulate and fair. Sounds to me like good business practices.

biglou · Jan 13, 2002

I agree with everything in the last sentence of your post. For me, I just wonder how other places can sell the same parts for as much as 20-30% less and charge a fraction of the shipping cost? Maybe they are just more efficent. Here are two examples to study:

1) Black rear fender for kTm.

Holeshot: $35 + $18 to ship.
CycleZoneKTM: $28.95 + $3.05 to ship UPS ground.

2) "WP" fork tube stickers.

Holeshot: $25 + $18 to ship.
CycleZoneKTM: $18.95 + $3.10 Prority Mail Shipping.

The numbers just don't add up. Maybe CycleZoneKTM is smaller and more efficient or something, but it just doesn't make sense in my book.

For the record, I have never purchased anything from Holeshot, but I am a member of their board (or at least, I was, I haven't been there in a while) and find that board very informative. It is a valuble resource for kTm owners.

yardpro · Jan 13, 2002

I run a business as well, and I know for experience cheaper is not always better. It can be, but not always. I am one of the most expensive landscape contractors around. My moto is if I can make the same money and do half of the work, why not?
My businesss does well because I am one of the best as what I do. I charge not for my labor but for my knowledge, and experience. I billfor every bit of time spent on a particular project. My clients know I am expensive, but I am worth it and they know it.
I agree that a company should not have to box and ship something and not be compensated. Also I do not take credit cards for two reasons. They do Charge the retailer a %, and for me, if you can't afford to pay now, you can't afford me.
Any way, I'm not defending holeshot, as I know very little about them. I just thought I would give a different experience and point of view.
Again, don't flame me, as I am not defending them, just keeping both sides balanced.

CR Swade · Jan 13, 2002

Lou, I hate to pee in the proverbial punchbowl-especially as Mike K. is a buddy of mine-but $3.05 doesn't cover minimum UPS from Topeka to KC. It should be more along the lines of $6.50 to 7.50 shipping/handling

I just think that customer service has to come first, then price will fall into place. Luckily Mike K. gives both. But by not charging enough on freight, eventually the price has to go up-simple profit analysis.

The #1 killer in profit margins (particularly in a competitive market with tons of mail order competition) is un-recouped shipping and handling. That missing $3 to $5 on every mail order part not billed out, not to mention the freight to get the part, will kill a company and any great intentions for customer service.

With that said, the min freight that Holeshot is charging is lame. $8.00/min freight would be much more tolerable and they wouldn't lose a dime-probably keep some customers in the meantime. BTW, do they offer a price match? If not, BIG MISTAKE . If they have been around that long, they should know better-kind of like peeing in a punchbowl..:confused:

biglou · Jan 13, 2002

Points well taken.

I'm going on a fuzzy memory here, it seems as though I remember the fender costing me $32 total and the fork stickers costing $22 total. Both are below the list price for the same items at Holeshot before they add their shipping. When I got the fender, Mike's price sticker was still on it and indeed, it said $28.95.

I think I may know where some of the confusion lies here-CycleZone isn't really a true Mail-order house. They are just a good, friendly dealer. I'm thinking that he does such little mail business that he just takes it at cost of shipping. Again, that's just a guess. As far as getting what you pay for, the kTm stuff is only available through their warehouse, AFAIK, since the parts are ordered by the kTm catalog number. So I'm positive that the stuff Mike is selling isn't from some discount source. The plstic was Acerbis and the stickers were from Austria. I'm just gonna keep the local guys in business as much as I can, that's all.

KDX220rm · Jan 13, 2002

KTM Cycle Zone is the parts distributor for the midwest area of United States, so Mike Kruger probably handles as many parts as Holeshot does. But at least Mike doesn't brag like Holeshot does. Holeshot send me a note stating he was the 8th largest KTM parts provider in the US a most profitable. I should of asked him where Cycle Zone stands.

Most of his profits comes from his shipping department I bet.

motojunkie · Jan 13, 2002

If you read what Holeshot put out, they support the argument. 8th largest, yet MOST PROFITABLE. I guess when you charge list +, and gouge on shipping, that adds up. But, in my book there is no way 8th largest can be the most profitable while still being fair and equitable.

yardpro · Jan 14, 2002

motojunkie

But, in my book there is no way 8th largest can be the most profitable while still being fair and equitable

is someone came to your work and told your boss they would do your job for 20% less and he gave them your job, would you be upset? Would that be "fair and equitable"? That's the same logic. Why is sell ing parts at reccomended list, and recouping your shipping costs not fair. If they are so unfair why do they still do so much business.
does eeryone expect a discount from everyone? the reason certain shops give discounts is to build up sales. If your sales are already there, and competition is not detrimentaly affecting sales,there is no reason not to sell at list.

Tony540 · Jan 14, 2002

Hi yardpro...Kudos to you on using some common sense to sort the wheat from the chaff and showing "another" side to this, so far,unbalanced report.

Cheers, Tony.

marcusgunby · Jan 14, 2002

I dont see why holeshot has a handling charge-they have to handle parts-ITS THERE JOB-all the stuff about how long it takes to pack stuff and send it-boo hoo-how else do they think they will sell stuff-this is normal work for a company,it is covered in the profit from buying parts from KTM and selling them for more-thats how shops earn money is it not.Do KTM charge them a handling fee and then state how long it takes to process each order -i think not.

nephron · Jan 14, 2002

I'm with yardpro. It's simple economics. Push what the market will bare. I'm sure a company that successful has been doing cost-analysis yearly, & for a long time. Most people obviously don't mind, or they wouldn't be doing business with them. Why are people whining? It's very easy to avoid them, if you don't like it. Are people miffed because they feel that the service is OWED to them at a lower cost? They obviously provide a good product/service.

yardpro · Jan 14, 2002

Are people miffed because they feel that the service is OWED to them at a lower cost? They

bingo.
as a physician you don't have do deal with undercutting as much, but I am sure it happens. As I'm sure you also know a young MD starting his practice will offer reduced rated ( or take an HMO at a lower % on the dollar). As he matures and acquires more knowledge/expertiese, his prices will rise also. When he is at the top of his profession, he should not be expected to have the same rate as the startup MD.
Sounds like the guy at holeshot has been around for a while. it's his business and he can run it as he wishes. Just like oakie does with this site. If you don't like it than do business elsewhere. If his business practices are that bad I am sure that this will be remedied when enough people go elsewhere.
he is not obligated to sell below retail, and I don't see why everyone gets miffed about that. As far as the shipping costs, his % profit on each item is not factored in with them having to re-box and handle the part. When He has to pay an employee to do this it eats into his profit. If his overhead + labor rate is something like $25.00/hr. and an employee can average 15 boxed per hour, then his break even cost is $1.60 per box. he should be able to double that for a cost to you of $ 3.20/ item. Then He will have to add ups, and package cost on top of that. Then there is the % the credit card company charges him per transaction. All this stuff adds up.
I know I keep saying that I am not defending holeshot, then turn around and do just that. What I am defending is the right of a business owner to make money. Most people have no idea how much time and stress is involved in building a business. These people who go out on a limb deserve to make a good living at it.

motojunkie · Jan 14, 2002

he is not obligated to sell below retail

That's right, but he's charging retail +!

Don't get me wrong, I'll be the first one to pay for quality. If I can get a better product, or better service, I'm happy to pay a premium. Holeshot doesn't offer anything special, that makes their product worth a premium price. I'll stick with Cycle Zone.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. ;)

Strick · Jan 14, 2002

Originally posted by Tony540
Hi yardpro...Kudos to you on using some common sense to sort the wheat from the chaff and showing "another" side to this, so far,unbalanced report.

Cheers, Tony.

I have made ZERO comments on Unit 74's tirade on the numerous boards.

I WILL NOW say something (is everyone on the 'other boards' listening)

I have made numerous purchases from Holeshot. I mean that in both direct and indirect purchases. I will elaborate. Many of my riding buddies have purchased from Holeshot, as have I. So Denny (Webby's), if you look up 'Strick's invoices you may only see 3 or 4 <meant for Holeshot>, and not the numerous other purchases sent to others in Reno. We all put our order in together, because of the shipping fees. We all saved doing this. I have not had the slightest problem with any of the Holeshot transactions.

Denny has better access to KTM parts than any dealer I know, and should. His dealership is very close to KTM-usa. I have also said more times than I can recall: Holeshot has the best KTM board in the World. BUT as far as Dirtbiiking all around DRN is BY FAR the Best.

I will also say that I have never gotten real good advice on any KTM issue from a dealer. I get good KTM advice from riders (board members) and that is why I like Holeshot's board - members.

Denny is in the business to make a profit. I am a capitalist to the nth degree. I would hope Denny is rapidly approaching retirement with the post '98 success of Holeshot. Good Job!

Now to Yardpro (and others) a quick piece of business (financial) advice: You should not have to pay 3 1/2% in credit card transactions. Either change banks or negotiate! At Holesot's volume (assumption) you should be between 1 1/2% and 2% - maximum.

Finally - there are a lot of boards out there. Is it O.K. to enjoy them all? Just because Someone (who I don't even know) had a bad experience with Holeshot, don't condem me for continuing my relationship with them!!! AND do not thnk for a moment that one person is the pied piper, and everyone else will follow your advice!

O.K. I'm done - Thanks!

Strick

Miltonyz · Jan 14, 2002

I agree Holeshot has the right to sell products for whatever they want. And these people have the right to tell all their friends the price sucks and you can get it cheaper elsewhere. I see nothing wrong about Holeshot selling there parts so much more expensive then competitors. The fact of the matter is though if everyone else is selling pistons for one dollar they expect holeshot to sell it for the same price. If not they feel cheated. Maybe that's not right but I believe that's how the majority of humans think.

Jeff Gilbert · Jan 14, 2002

Originally posted by BigLou
list]
2) "WP" fork tube stickers.

Holeshot: $25 + $18 to ship.

CycleZoneKTM: $18.95 + $3.10 Prority Mail Shipping.

That's funny. I needed to replace my fork tube stickers so I emailed Factory Connection and asked for them. Send them a self addressed envelope with .34 postage and they send me the stickers for free.
I'm happy:)

Tony540 · Jan 14, 2002

Strick - 3 1/2 %in CC transactions ??? Over here it's 5%!

I too see nothing wrong in going to get advice/entertainment from ALL the other boards out there.

With what Jeff Gilbert has offered up, are all the troglodytes going to add Mike from Cycle Zone to their boycott list too ? LMAO
:confused:

Cheers, Tony

Jeff Gilbert · Jan 14, 2002

well I do have to add that Factory Connection did do the suspension on my bike, even though it was before I bought it. They are looking for exposure and a sticker on a bike is pretty cheap advertisment.

Patman · Jan 15, 2002

So now Denny claims that the people that had less than acceptable service and were told "too bad", or those that he screwed over on shipping or even those that refused to play by his "pay now, I'll total it later" scheme are lieing? Seems like there are a few too many of these instances for it to be a black helicopter conspiracy doesn't it? What goes around comes around, and I think now that more folks have easy access to a large community of people with the same interests these types of companies will be put to task. Previously maybe you would tell a few buddies and it would end there because your not going to write letters or place phone calls to a bunch of like brand riders because you don't have their information in the first place. Now there is a wide open area for people to come by and see the information you placed.

Claiming people are liers because they disagree with you is a sure sign that you have something to hide.

biglou · Jan 15, 2002

Strick-You're right.

A wise Jedi Knight once said: "Don't base your loyalty on someone else's fight". I for one, am a very loyal customer where I feel that I get great service and good value. Sometimes I will pay more just to get something from somewhere that I trust with my business. That trust will always have started out with friendly customer service and fair prices, be it local shops or mail-order houses. I also like to share my good experiences with vendors that I feel are good for riders so they may benefit from it as well.
And I do agree that Holeshot's board is an invaluable source for kTm info.

MXFastGuy · Jan 15, 2002

Yoda

A not-so-wise motocrosser once said, "Learn from the mistakes of others who are kind enough to enlighten you" :confused:

He also said, " Don't waste your money by paying retail+ on commodity goods.";)

another holeshot thread, but differeent

yardpro

Gone Bye-Bye

biglou

yardpro

Gone Bye-Bye

CR Swade

biglou

KDX220rm

Uhhh...

motojunkie

yardpro

Gone Bye-Bye

Tony540

marcusgunby

nephron

Dr. Feel Good

yardpro

Gone Bye-Bye

motojunkie

Strick

Miltonyz

Sponsoring Member

Jeff Gilbert

Tony540

Jeff Gilbert

Patman

Pantless Wonder

biglou

MXFastGuy

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another holeshot thread, but differeent

Gone Bye-Bye

biglou

Gone Bye-Bye

biglou

Uhhh...

Gone Bye-Bye

Dr. Feel Good

Gone Bye-Bye

Sponsoring Member

Pantless Wonder

biglou

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