Another Oil topic!

Goon360 · Dec 13, 2009

Hey guys, I'm thinking about buying a 1996 KDX 200 from a friend.
Anyways, he's been running 2 stroke chainsaw oil in his premix in 40:1.
Is this bad? I'm thinking so, as chainsaw oil is pretty thick/tacky.
If I buy the bike should I just drain the tank start using a synthetic oil or am I going to have to do something else?
The bike also has a Wiseco piston if that makes any difference

Thanks in advance!

julien_d · Dec 13, 2009

Ugh. Plan on replacing the piston, rings, re-plating the cylinder, and splitting the case to replace the crank bearings.

I could be over-reacting, but these are all possible casualties of running inappropriate oil.

Chainsaw oil... :|

J.

Goon360 · Dec 13, 2009

I don't know what he was thinking.
I asked him before what he was running when he got the bike at the start of this year, and it was chainsaw oil.
Told him he should use a good synthetic.

I'm going to go check out the bike though, see how it runs and everything.
Probably wont be picking it up though..

julien_d · Dec 13, 2009

Well, While I hate to admit it... I have run chainsaw type oils in my older air cooled bikes in a pinch, and have had no catastrophic failures. A good bet would be to yank the pipe off and have a look at the condition of the piston and rings. the exhaust and intake ports will show wear first on an improperly lubricated cylinder. If everything looks clean and shiny with no major scuffing, it could be ok. You'll want to clean the powervalves ASAP though. I'd bet they're all gummed up and just plain nasty.

I would think consistently running an oil designed for a tiny air cooled bore in your watercooled bike would be a really bad idea. You never know though, could be lucky!

dirt bike dave · Dec 13, 2009

If it is jetted stock (rich) and he is not an agressive rider and he rarely rides in extreme conditons like deep mud and sand, chances are everything is AOK.

JMHO.

FWIW, I've been in several bad situations where I've run outboard motor oil, jet ski oil or had to mix at least 100:1 when I ran out of fuel (my buddy and I got lost on a long ride and found a camper in the middle of nowhere), and no harm came to my KDX's.

mudpack · Dec 13, 2009

Two-stroke premix oil meant for a chainsaw will not be a problem in the KDX.
Now, chainsaw BAR oil is a different story.......!! (That's the stuff that is thick and tacky; the premix oil is the same as any other premix oil in consistency)

NOTE: if the chainsaw premix oil is from Husqvarna, then you are good to go. Can't say for sure on the Poulan stuff.... :)

Goon360 · Dec 13, 2009

I'm pretty sure the bike would be fine if he had only ridden it with the chainsaw oil a few times, but he's been using that mix for about a year now.
I'm not really sure how much he rides, but from what my friend who has rode with him tells me, it's not much.

He crashed the bike before and broke the brake lever and got a little gun-shy I think.

Dunno, I'm still gonna check it out. He wants $900 for it but is flexible. And it's not like if the bike isn't in good shape I have to get it.

My back-up plan is a YZ125 with a fly-wheel weight and a larger tank. :ride:

Goon360 · Dec 13, 2009

The exact type of oil is Stihl High Performance 2 cycle oil.
I've heard of some guys running this in there bikes..
Should I still be worried?

Joburble · Dec 14, 2009

No harm in giving it a quick compression test. I think a 96 model should have between 95 - 151 psi. It's probably a reasonable indicator of condition.

If you are doing trail riding I would think the KDX may be a better bet that the yz125, but that's just my opinion. If you can, ride both and see what you think.

mudpack · Dec 14, 2009

Goon360 said:
The exact type of oil is Stihl High Performance 2 cycle oil.
I've heard of some guys running this in there bikes..
Should I still be worried?

I wouldn't be worried. I wouldn't choose to run this over a specialized motorcycle premix oil, but I doubt it would cause a problem in your KDX.
....the main reason chainsaw premix oil would be a last choice for me is that it is so expensive per ounce.

julien_d · Dec 14, 2009

The only major problem I can see is gumming up the power valves. They tend to fail if they get all gunked up with crappy oil deposits. Hope my first post didn't scare you completely away.

sr5bidder · Dec 14, 2009

chances are that if it still runs well then you should be fine with a little clean up of the kips and a repack on the silencer (if its not stock)

BUT if he used it because he has it around for his chain saws and mixed for his chain saws ( they seem to call for less oil to gas) THEN you maybe looking at more wear in the piston/cylinder/crank.

all in all if you think about how hard those tiny chainsaw engines have to work and stay alive while doing so I would not be to concerned but $600- $700 would be a good price you could feel good about if you had to do some work to it.

I got cought not thinking on my most recent purchase so I'll have to dig my self out slowly so the wife won't rag me about buying a POS

reepicheep · Dec 14, 2009

I wouldn't worry.

For an application like motor oil for my high performance air cooled long stroke VTwin (which runs very hot relative to a water cooled machine, and has a very high piston to cylinder wall speed relative to many other machines), I run full synthetic. The high temperature breakdown of non synthetic is only like 50 degrees F above the normal operating temperature of that motor. Going to full synthetic buys me another 50 degrees F or so.

Also for my Saab turbo, which has an oil cooled turbo bearing, I like full synthetic for that. That's another demanding application.

For the Sienna, I run full synthetic because that V6 had a reputation of sludging. But I suspect I am wasting my money. It's easier to do because I just get the Wal Mart branded full synthetic, which is only a little more expensive then brand name non synthetic.

For the KDX, I suspect this is heresy, but the oil only has to lubricate the bearings for *one stroke... not for 5000 miles. So I'm betting that any two stroke oil would be fine in terms of durability.

Better brands of oils will probably make less of a mess, smoke less, mix with the gas better, and smell better. And perhaps you could get away with mixing them thinner. But I bet they all lubricate in much the same way at 32:1.

I bet an air cooled small displacement high revving chain saw motor is a more demanding environment for oil then a water cooled 200 KDX...

The Klotz oil sure smells good though! :)

Goon360 · Dec 14, 2009

Had the pipe off and a look at the piston, and it looks pretty good.
Not black or anything. Shiny actually.
Like I said, the oil used was Stihl HP Ultra 2 cycle oil which is a synthetic oil with fuel stabilizers and I've heard of people running this in there bikes before. I told my friend to switch to an oil made for bikes though, like AMSOIL.

I'm not as worried now though, as the piston looks to be in good shape.
If I do buy it I'm going to haggle o the price of course and when I get it home clean out the KIPS.

sr5bidder · Dec 14, 2009

would be a good idea to take the cylinder off and pop a new piston in there with the money you don't give your friend

Goon360 · Dec 14, 2009

I'm not the most mechanically inclined, but I bet I could get the hang of it.
But the piston that's in it is pretty new, and I don't think my friend really rides that much as it looks pretty good.

Better safe than sorry though.

sr5bidder · Dec 14, 2009

its real easy when you get ready for a do's and don't list just ask

some ask, then just go ahead and do the don'ts :ohmy:

not going to call em out though :cool:

Goon360 · Dec 14, 2009

Is there a tutorial on the net with pictures? That would help greatly!

Goon360 · Dec 14, 2009

Well, don't need help with removing the piston now.
Someones already offered him more than what I feel comfortable offering for it.

Another Oil topic!

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Bring back the CR500

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Another Oil topic!

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