Another take on end of Red 2 Strokes

[Zenith]

Honda didn't do this, the FIM and AMA giving four strokes a big advantage did, simple as that. Had they not allowed 250s in the 125 class is would be a LOT of years before we'd ever see a racign four stroke MX bike, if ever.
I don't really understand why people are so annoyed at Honda, as IndyYZ85 said they're a business. The writing was on the wall for two strokes with the rules the way they are, for Honda to ignore this would have been a serious dis-service to their share holders.

If you want to be annoyed at somebody aim it directly at the AMA and FIM, they had and have sole control over this, what they say goes.

 

[Micahdawg]

Honda didn't do this, the FIM and AMA giving four strokes a big advantage did, simple as that.

You mean Honda didn't cut the CR85, 125 and 250 after 2007? Guess the AMA has more pull than I thought :think:

Yeah, Honda is a business. And on a global scale, the markets they are involved with, how many dollars do you think are really eating into their R&D of two strokes. I'm betting a pretty slim amount (cough-civics-cough).

And yes, it was the AMA who ruled them to a disadvantage. However, I don't see any other of the big manufactures totally chopping their two stroke line up by 2007. The most we've seen is KX American not importing the 125 last year. Now Honda calls it quits after 2007, yet Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha and KTM (all big businesses) are not doing the same (yet).

So yes, I'm still pissed at Honda (thanks for holding out guys). AMA might have gave 4 strokes the advantage, but KTM has share holders and they just produced a brand new first time ever production 144.

Micah

 

[Zenith]

You can't honestly expect Honda to keep production lines going to manufacture a handful (and that's really all the CR125s they were making) of bikes? It just doesn't make sense.

Somebody had to be first to cut some of their two strokes, it happens to be Honda, big deal. Others will follow suit.

You can't really compare KTM to Honda, they're a FAR smaller company who can turn out a small number of bikes and make money from it.

Look I'm very much a two stroke head, if things went my way you'd see no four strokes on an MX track again. However you've got to be realistic; had the AMA/FIM not set the rules as they did we wouldn't be discussing this, people would laugh if you suggested riding a four stroke. But they did set the rules and very deliberately didn't modify them when it was clear they were out of whack with reality - so the only people to blame are the AMA & FIM.

 

[94formy]

Alot of people have good thoughts about this topic but alot of people are uneducated about the "difficulity" of mantaining a 4 stroke. The truth is that in a few years all the big company's will probabally stop making 2 strokes. It's not only because of enviromental issues but the demand is shifting from 2 to 4 strokes. 4 strokes just ride better, plain and simple. They're smoother, just as fast, and more forgiving to ride. I know I might get flammed for this but its the truth. I ride 2 strokes and love them, they're alot of fun, but my CR 250 is nothing compared to riding my roomates CRF 450. If I had the finnancial means i'd prolly get one myself. We totaly rebuilt his motor last year including splitting the case and putting a new crank in it. They're not that hard to work on or mantain. If you can read then you can work on and mantain a 4 stroke. After adjusting the valves a couple times you wont even think twice about it. Once again I am not at all dogging on 2 strokes but 4 strokes are the future and Honda made a decision to make a step toward the future.

 

[2strokerfun]

They're smoother, just as fast, and more forgiving to ride. I know I might get flammed for this but its the truth.

Not always that easy to start when they die on the trail, though, are they. And for tight woods riding, 2-strokes win most times. See the latest issue of Dirt Bike magazine. Kind of a 2stroke special. They race a modified RM 250 against a modified RMZ 450 in tight woods enduro. No contest, 2-stroke all the way.

I can rebuild any engine I've ever seen. But I can't always afford parts for a rebuild. With a 2-stroke, cost is a LOT less.

Not a flame. Just a flicker.

 

[pace]

A more tactful way would have been to at least "phase" the line out, but damn, this is a pretty swift chop.

Given that the '06 CRs are essentially identical to the '02s, except for some minor suspension, cylinder, and ignition tweaks, one might argue that they have been phasing them out over the past several years. Just playing devil's advocate.

Me.. I'm on the fence about picking up a new YZ250, or going 4T. From a pure enjoyment perspective I would MUCH rather be riding a two-stroke, but of course I'm concerned about chassis technology falling behind, and not to mention that I'm sick of getting pulled off the starts and heading into the first corner at the back of the pack. The bandwagon is looking awfully inviting.

There were 50 entrants to my Vet race this weekend. I counted 3 two-strokes, and I was on one of them.. :whoa:

 

[250Roach]

Ya know, I use to be a believer in 2 strokes, infact I still am, however, rebuilding a new four stroke motor really is'nt all that different than building that 350 four bolt main we love so much, or that 440 six pack, or that 351 or 429! Its the same motor, just smaller with overhead cam(s). The good thing is there not EFI. Yet. I was a little shocked to see the prices on valves and junk like that, especially the price of a good aftermarket pipe. BUT, some of these Japan based companies have given up on making good 2 stroke engines. Remember in 1994, the KX 250 that was made? My friend here in PGH still HAS one, with the original reeds, only one top end ever was put into it. We named it Christine! And that bike has lasted. Over all the other smokers we had in the last 10 years, that one was built to last. I now am getting rid of my new 2006 CR 250 because the motor already needed 1200$. Im going four stroke now because of the low maintinence. If you keep these machines well oiled and maintaned, they will last.

 

[pace]

I gotta ask how you fried a CR250 motor to the tune of $1200..?