Any cylinder replating options in Michigan?

[KTM Mike]

Hey fellow MTR's - I tore down Mark's KDX for a top end rebuild last night, assuming it would be a quick simple basic top end. In looking at the cylinder - it appears it is in need of a replate job. Kinda weird looking actually - it has a bunch of small "pits" maybe the size of a pin head, irregularily shaped scattered about the bore. They do not appear to be from something foreign material causing them, as there is no scoring at all, just these pits.

Anyhow, had I known I was in for a replate, I would of started this project a few weeks ago. Riding season is upon us - so we want a quick turn around. Are there any places in Michigan that do replating? (shipping transit time would be reduced significantly). I did find this place:
http://www.mcbperformance.com/ But know nothing about them. Are there other options?

Next year I have to start my bike go throughs much earlier! My KTM is sitting there with cases split and shock off - waiting on the crank work and shock revalve/rebuild, the Penton is somewhat apart for new shift shaft seal, a new seat going on, and a variety of other odds and ends, Marks KDX is tore down for the top end. The only bike in the garage that is rideable is Mitch's KTM. I hope he wants to share!

Thanks

Mike

 

[Uchytil]

Not what you're asking for (MI). But I send all my work, and home, stuff to U.S. Chrome. I get quick turn-around. You could check their website.

 

[KTM Mike]

Yeah, I have used US Chrome in the past - and if I cant find something closer, will likely for this job - but simply hoping for something where I only loose a total of 2 days shipping time, vs 6 days total transit time (and I dont want to pay the big bucks for overnight shipping).

 

[slow_joe]

http://www.mt-llc.com/
Never used them, but see them recomended alot on other websites.

 

[kdx633]

Mike
I just had my kdx done by u.s chrome.In the literature returned with the cylinder it states that small pits in the chrome are a normal result of porosity in the base metal.
They claim it has no effect on operation.Could it be possible this is similar to your situation?

CB

 

[KTM Mike]

Slow Joe - thanks - but another one in Wisconsin. Seems all of them are saying right now about a 2 week turn around, plus shipping time. Trying to cut down the shipping time.

KDX633 - Yeah, I thought of that same issue - but I have had other cylinders replated (by US Chrome) never saw anything like this. I will try to take a pic of the pits (I kind of doubt I can get anything to come out clearly though) and post it here.

I did speak to the guys at MCB Performance - they may have a KDX cylinder with a new replate I can simply exchange ours for - same price as doing a replate. His computer was down, so cant get back to me until Monday, but I can hope! Sounds like they do tons of work with snomobiles, and offer a 1 year warranty. I may go that route - failing that, or not finding any others in Michigan, I will just go with what I know - US Chrome.

Mike

 

[wake_rider]

I did speak to the guys at MCB Performance - they may have a KDX cylinder with a new replate I can simply exchange ours for - same price as doing a replate. His computer was down, so cant get back to me until Monday, but I can hope! Sounds like they do tons of work with snomobiles, and offer a 1 year warranty. I may go that route - failing that, or not finding any others in Michigan, I will just go with what I know - US Chrome.

Mike

Bad thing about that is that you will no longer have matching serial numbers. Might not be a big deal to you, but I like to keep it all matching! I'm a little anal like that though...

 

[KTM Mike]

matching #s dont really matter to me - fact is, it is not like this is some desirable ultra collectable classic bike. Plus, the serial # is not on the cylinder anyhow - its on the engine case..and...many bikes (most?) the frame # and engine # are often different #s entirely from the factory. I know for fact that is the case with older Suzuki RMs (I have restored several 70s vintage RMs)...

 

[wake_rider]

True... I think my jug has the last couple of numbers of my bikes serial # on it, and I'm just particular about those types of things. Not exactly sure why it matters to me, but it does...

 

[BadgerMan]

Mike,

Is he ready for a little more zip? :laugh:

Cylinder fits 1995-2006 Kaw KDX200/220. Big bore 240cc cylinder, ported by Eric Gorr, fresh NICOM plating, and Wiseco piston kit.
Price: $449

Free UPS ground shipping in the continental USA

http://www.eric-gorr.com/dirtbikeparts.html

 

[KTM Mike]

All right Tim - now you went and did it...a total side track, total diversion from our simple plan! Thanks a lot buddy! :yell: :nener:

Seems Mark is rather intrigued with that option! I just Emailed Eric to get more specifics. From some searches on DRN, the 240 kitted KDXs have a variety of issues - specifically, no rev on top (but sweet bottom end), and issues with idling, and some serious attention to jetting is needed. As that one is ported, I wonder if it might address those issues.

Hmmmmm what to do..... :ride:

 

[BadgerMan]

All right Tim - now you went and did it...

LOL! Sorry buddy.

Unless you have already purchased parts, that kit would not be TOO much more than a piston/gasket kit and a new cyclinder and/or replate. It's only money, you can always make more.

I'll bet that Eric can help you with any of those concerns. Give him a call as he is always very willing to help. He did a bunch of work for me when I was riding the YZF.....he's a super nice guy.

 

[KTM Mike]

Nope, have not bought any parts yet - and the best news is, most of this gets to be on Mark's nickle anyhow - his My Daddy's Wallet Race Team sponsorship is limited to stock parts and basic rebuilds this year! Modifications, cylinder replates etc. he is going to have to find another sponsor (his own wallet!). Having said that - that 240 stuff would boil down to $130 more than a basic rebuild and replate! So not to bad at all.

 

[KTM Mike]

In my 240cc excitement, I forgot about those pics of the pits in the plating. Here is a shot. These do not stick up from the wall, rather are only "pits" - not real deep, but you can feel them if you lightly run the tip of a knife etc. across them.

 

[KTM Mike]

here is a different view of the pits.

Oh, the orange glow to the lighting - that is simply from the natural orange glow that permeates my garage all the time.

 

[wake_rider]

I've seen fresh replating look like that, and they usually send a disclaimer saying it is "unavoidable and actually helpful due to it helps collect more lubrication on the cylinder wall." As long as the plating is not flaking or there are no bad vertical scores I would think that you would be OK. You won't lose compression unless the marks ran vertically....

 

[TCTrailrider]

Mike, I'd throw in the rings and button it up. Loss of compression may slow him down a little but he's getting to that age where you need every advantage you can get. :nod:

 

[KTM Mike]

Mike, I'd throw in the rings and button it up. Loss of compression may slow him down a little but he's getting to that age where you need every advantage you can get. :nod:

Aww..man, now you are raining on my.. errr...Mark's 240cc parade! Good point though... maybe 2 mm ring end gap, and stack up 4 or 5 base gaskets to make sure the compression isnt to high might help me out to?

Wake Rider - so, seriously, that sort of pitting is "normal"? Yikes! I must admit I have never seen one look like that. But, it sure would be nice to simply button it up with a piston and rings. (end gap was way out of spec - max is .65 mm per the service manual - this was at .98mm). There was no flaking I could see (other than the flake on this keyboard), and no scores.

 

[Makeshoes]

A few years ago, my sons KDX 200 needed a new cylinder. After talking w/ Eric Gorr, I sold him the damaged cyclinder and then I bought a new cylinder from Midwest Action Cycle.com. This is what I did. Good Luck w/ your situation.

 

[woodsy]

Just like Mighty Mouses song being sang as he approached his friends in need,,,,,,HERE I COME TO SAFE THE DAYYYYYYYYY,,,, THIS MEANS THE ALL KNOWING POWER WOODSY IS SAFELY ON YOUR WAY.... PAY ATTENTION AND LEARN OF WEALTHS OF KNOWLEDGE THAT 40 PLUS YEARS OF SALVAGING THE UNSALVABLE AND TAMING THE MACHINES NO ONE THOUGHT COULD CHANGE...
Now that we have astablisked the level or egoisism that I am expecting to gain from solving this medial challenge lets solve it..
You hve to determine what the pits actually are.. I recently had a painter tell me a job he was going to do for me was going to cost 900 bucks becusae of some Unknown substance that he was going to have to prepare, prime and finish prepare and finnally paint.. I put a little thought into it and asked the very questions Mike needs to ask here,, First,, what exactly are thouse pits - I took soem time and tested the substance and found out I could wash it off with soap and water - saved 900 bucks by washing a 300 square foot area - worked out PERFECT!!
In Mikes case, take some `acid like used to clean masonary work (cant pull the name), Put a little on a qtip swab and apply it directly to a pit. Be very careful with this stuff cause it acts on aluminum right now but wont hurt steel. Play with it enough that you know what level the coating is comprimised,, If the nicks are just spots on top of the coating all you have to do is carefully remove them with the acid.. If they are indeed actually holes thru the nic that is a different story.. THere are places in a bored that this kind of stuff reaaly has no major flaw and then there are others that you diffenitlty are inviting trouble.. Determining where the bad or good areas are is as simple as undertanding why it can be bad,, It can be bad because holes thru the nic in the wrong place causes extreme hot spots and can result in complete engine failure...
Mike,, using all that excellent help I just gave you to fiqure out what direction you need to go has brought you to a cross road.. I have had many jugs redone and am ALWAYS happy with the exchange programs I have been involved in.. Personally I would rather have a jug in 3 days and be riding then wait 3 weeks just because I want MY jug... I do the same thing with Cylinder Gases for my Mig and TIG
Give Aaron a shout a Babbitts (231-737-9241) Ask for service and then ask for Aaron... I know I know,, your still probably upset with him cause there aint no orange scoots able to get around his yellow bike BUT remember,, because he doesnt ride Orange he is also a little more people friendly too so for your case it works out.. Anyway, I am pretty sure that either he or someone that works for him can send you in a direction for swapping that jug out.. Another thing you can do is ask him to check under my account and see what I can get you new one for.. Never know - may have one on the shelf,,,
I have seen cylinders that look just like that from snow being inhaled and that ice makes poc marks when it hits,, If your boys are snow riding make sure they are using a prefilter and their pipes are sealed good.. Anti Freeze leak can do it to but usually there is more damage...
Another good approach is to look in bike rags, maybe even that free Mich Auto RV - get the B book and alot of times there are companies advertising..
Good luck buddy!! Dont feel bad on being way behind,, Looks like I may be riding moped only this year
Good luck my friend
Woodsy

 

[YZMAN400]

And on a totaly unrelated topic.....


:yeehaw: HORSESHOE WAS FREECKING PHENOMINAL THIS MORNING :yeehaw:


It was a SOW ride of 1........And it was AWESOME :laugh:



Braaaappppp :nener:




Mike how about Fredette racing down in Illinois? They might have what you need to get ya up and running. They are the KDX kings after all

www.frpoffroad.com


:ride:

 

[crazytrails]

Those pits are somewhat normal.. but to be honest, being that your ring end gap is way out of the service limit gap, the pits are larger than i would run.. when the cylinder was with in the service limit, those pits would have been much smaller.. I would either contact fredette offroad as Don has just mentioned. or go with the big bore kit, it will tame the engine down and make it more of a woods machine.. or give me a call for a new cylinder, but i think replating or swapping a cylinder is a better idea for cost reasons.... 231-737-9241 ext.106 Aaron.. have fun mike. Hey how are those tires working on the bikes? let me know. ALSO there is a cylinder and head with top end gasket kit on ebay ending is 4 hours.. cylinder is very clean like they had it redone not to long ago..it hasn't even been bid on yet..

 

[KTM Mike]

Woodsy - thanks...I think I followed all that? the acid you refer to is Muratic Acid. I forget the proper dilution ratio - but I always clean my plated cylinders with it when I rebuild (I have a jug of it out in the garage.) But...these are definetly pits, not aluminium transfered onto the walls - if you look at them with magnifying glass, and run the tip of a pointy knife lightly across the wall, you can feel it drop into the pit actually. If we can find an exchange, I think I will go that route - I am all for quick!

Don - quit rubbing it in will ya!? Fredette - yup..another one on my list to call.

Aaron - I think your comments cemented it for me.... we will either replace or replate,...not gonna use that cylinder. It had not occured to me that maybe these pits were smaller before, but that as it wore, the pits enlarged. which likely means some will continue to get bigger, and other new ones may pop up. On those tires - i forget which kid's bike... but we put one on front maybe? I have not heard any complaints. We will likely swap out the others this spring. Oh, on that cylinder on ebay - I had looked at it before. The seller's feeback wasnt quite where I prefer to see it be - and they certainly did no provide much of a description, and the pics did not give you much of a view of the cylinder... would rather not go there.

That place I found (MCB) is going to check Monday if they can do an exchange. The 240 kit is pretty much ruled out unless Gorr will give us some bucks for Mark's old cylinder. Seems when I ran the cost by Mark in more detail and reminded him this was on the HOW (his own wallet) Race Team sponsorship program, the lower cost of replating was suddenly more appealing! But...i do plan to talk to Gorr and find out if he would give us some $ for Marks old one, and find out what sort of porting results he gets on those.

 

[katoom125]

And on a totaly unrelated topic.....


:yeehaw: HORSESHOE WAS FREECKING PHENOMINAL THIS MORNING :yeehaw:

Ya, well Tin Cup wasn't bad either - it's all rideable now - snow's gone! - there are a few new trees down - fun while they last (until a few do-gooders take them away)

 

[Fred T]

www.frpoffroad.com

Jeff may be busy taking down arrows these next few days but I'll be he has an exchange cyl too.



OH, and you guys that road some ORV trails this weekend, nay nay - we rode 90 miles of choice singletrack at the Roselawn enduro this weekend!! No Dust fo sho!!