- Aug 2, 2000
- 13,504
- 19
Beware! Beware! The CPSC could be after us!
- Thread starter XRpredator
- Start date
- Feb 9, 2000
- 3,715
- 0
Did you notice that her e-mail address is at the bottom of the article? I sent her an e-mail and asked her to check into serious accident rates for football and publish a similar article. That is a Pittsburgh PA paper and she'd get crucified :)
Oh and a quick link to her e-mail: bswan@wpahs.org
Beat ya to it Lou - Neener Neener :)
Oh and a quick link to her e-mail: bswan@wpahs.org
Beat ya to it Lou - Neener Neener :)
B
biglou
Dr. Barbara E. Swan is a physiatrist at Allegheny General Hospital. She can be reached at bswan@wpahs.org. This article was reprinted from the Sept. 28 Bulletin, published by the Allegheny County Medical Society.
B
biglou
Good point. I sent a firm, but educated, email to her. I told her to feel free to call me or email me back. :thumb:
I finally got to use the "saving us from ourselves" line in a letter!
I finally got to use the "saving us from ourselves" line in a letter!
truespode
Moderator / Wheelie King
- Jun 30, 1999
- 7,990
- 252
Comments are going out now...
http://www.post-gazette.com/healthscience/20021126hdirtbike4.asp
http://www.post-gazette.com/contact/comments_form.asp?Mtype=NEWShs
bswan@wpahs.org
Dr. Swan,
I recently read your article from www.post-gazette.com. I thought it was very well written and made some clear points. However, I believe those points are very misinformed and written more from the heart of someone who only sees the tragedy instead of someone taking a more objective look.
I am an avid dirtbike enthusiasts. I race and participate regularly in my sport. I have a great love for the comraderie, competition and responsibility that this sport fosters.
The kids I know in this sport are good students, listen and behave. They are responsible and most importantly they understand that there are repurcussions for what they do in life, not just on the track. Granted there are the kids who have no quality supervision who can give our sport (and any sport) a bad image but overall the quality in the participants of this sport are very impressive individuals.
If you would be willing to read, I would like to respond to a few points you made in your article at http://www.post-gazette.com/healthscience/20021126hdirtbike4.asp
You wrote: "Surely such a risky sport must be regulated. What I discovered was the opposite."
What I'd like to ask is why should any sport be regulated? In my opinion the act of regulation, especially on the federal level does little except give unresponsible parents recourse for their mistakes. I know that sounds harsh but there are a lot of frivalous lawsuits out there by the unresponsible and lazy.
While the sport of dirtbike riding is dangerous it is not something that needs to be regulated any more than baseball or basketball does. Every race promoter REQUIRES parental supervision and safety gear. The requirements for safety are more than you will find in any traditional stick and ball sport taught during Physical Education classes across the nation.
Our enthusiasts make a point to clearly illustrate the dangers involved in the sport and while some do get injured there are countless number of enthusiasts who gain great value from this sport. It teaches them responsibility, understanding for the repurcussions of mistakes and helps them maintain great physical conditioning.
I am not going to tell you that there are no injuries or that the injuries that do occur are minor. I do believe though that limiting the age of many of our racers would limit the teachings this sport has to offer. Look into James "Bubba" Stewart or Mike Alessi or many of the other kids who are under 18 who have done incredible things. Look at often injured Travis Pastrana who had a spinal injury but continues to race and do dangerous tricks while at the same time he graduated high school early (with a 4.0 gpa) and is taking online courses through the University of Maryland (where his gpa is above 3.5) and is one of the great ambassadors of our sport. He often speaks of how important his family is, education is and how risky the sport can be. The injuries are a small part of what these riders are about... their commitment to training, winning and being a better person are a much larger image that is portrayed and received by those that look up to them.
I'd also like to comment on another item you wrote: "Football is a less inherently dangerous sport, but we know far more about safety and injury prevention on the playing field than on the race track."
Football has more broken ankles, broken collarbones and broken everything than the sport of motocross. When an accident happens in racing it is often severe but there are more broken bones on the field of football than the track. I believe once you call for more studies your studies, if done objectively will prove that fact.
I have played basketball in high school and ran track. I have ridden dirtbikes since that age. I have more twisted ankles from basketball than scrapes from dirtbikes. I was able to avoid a lot of injuries from riding because of my mother who forced me to wear protective gear while riding becuase she knew it was her responsibility to protect me.
You also wrote: "A Dirt bikes and their riders should be licensed, and riders should be required to wear helmets and eye protection. A minimum age for operation of all off-road motorized vehicles should be set."
With the exception of the license those things are already being done. Also, at the top level you have to be a certain age (16) before you can get a professional license. Much of what you want is already in place by the organizers and participants of the sport because they care about the participants and the sport.
You need to see these racers perform. You need to see the agility, the balance and the awesome physical talent they have (not to mention the smile on their face when they come off the track). The racers are amazing and they perform with a love you rarely find in any other sport and a dedication to being the best that you will be hard pressed to find in any other sport.
If you limit the age of the participants you only take these individuals and put them in another sport where they will break a collarbone making a tackle or an ankle trying to take a charge. They chose the sport of dirtbikes because they have a love for it. Injury is part of it and all participants understand that.
Finally I want to respond to one last comment you wrote: "...we can educate young patients and their parents about the dangers of dirt bikes. We can teach them that these vehicles are dangerous and powerful machines, not children's toys."
I hope that you allow the activists in this sport to educate you on its greatness. I hope you look at things objectively and not just from the risk standpoint. It is a dangerous sport but one with more precautions on the track than any other sport you will see.
The only thing we need now is less hysteria. Please contact the AMA or the Coombs family from Racer X for more information. The Coombs family put on one of the largest amateur races every year and they know the risk and the reward better than anyone when it comes to the younger participants. I urge you go to the Amateur Championships next year and look at the sport. I believe you will walk away with a better understanding of our sport and why we take the risk.
Yes there are injuries. Yes it is part of the sport. But we are all working on trying to limit those risks and reduce the injuries because we value the sport more than a federal government will. We value the safety of the children who we get to know, trust and respect more than some faceless agency will. We touch the lives of our fellow enthusiasts more than the ink on some piece of paper ever will.
Try as you might but all your attempts will bring is an empty federal mandate that limits more than it provides. If successful you will take away the interaction and teaching the adults in this sport can hand down. You will also limit the teachings and experience this sport provides. Teaching and experiences that have made me (and so many others) quality members of society who give more than they ever ask in return.
Ivan Liechty, M.A.
Spartanburg, SC
AMA Member
SCORE Member
BRC Member
http://www.post-gazette.com/healthscience/20021126hdirtbike4.asp
http://www.post-gazette.com/contact/comments_form.asp?Mtype=NEWShs
bswan@wpahs.org
Dr. Swan,
I recently read your article from www.post-gazette.com. I thought it was very well written and made some clear points. However, I believe those points are very misinformed and written more from the heart of someone who only sees the tragedy instead of someone taking a more objective look.
I am an avid dirtbike enthusiasts. I race and participate regularly in my sport. I have a great love for the comraderie, competition and responsibility that this sport fosters.
The kids I know in this sport are good students, listen and behave. They are responsible and most importantly they understand that there are repurcussions for what they do in life, not just on the track. Granted there are the kids who have no quality supervision who can give our sport (and any sport) a bad image but overall the quality in the participants of this sport are very impressive individuals.
If you would be willing to read, I would like to respond to a few points you made in your article at http://www.post-gazette.com/healthscience/20021126hdirtbike4.asp
You wrote: "Surely such a risky sport must be regulated. What I discovered was the opposite."
What I'd like to ask is why should any sport be regulated? In my opinion the act of regulation, especially on the federal level does little except give unresponsible parents recourse for their mistakes. I know that sounds harsh but there are a lot of frivalous lawsuits out there by the unresponsible and lazy.
While the sport of dirtbike riding is dangerous it is not something that needs to be regulated any more than baseball or basketball does. Every race promoter REQUIRES parental supervision and safety gear. The requirements for safety are more than you will find in any traditional stick and ball sport taught during Physical Education classes across the nation.
Our enthusiasts make a point to clearly illustrate the dangers involved in the sport and while some do get injured there are countless number of enthusiasts who gain great value from this sport. It teaches them responsibility, understanding for the repurcussions of mistakes and helps them maintain great physical conditioning.
I am not going to tell you that there are no injuries or that the injuries that do occur are minor. I do believe though that limiting the age of many of our racers would limit the teachings this sport has to offer. Look into James "Bubba" Stewart or Mike Alessi or many of the other kids who are under 18 who have done incredible things. Look at often injured Travis Pastrana who had a spinal injury but continues to race and do dangerous tricks while at the same time he graduated high school early (with a 4.0 gpa) and is taking online courses through the University of Maryland (where his gpa is above 3.5) and is one of the great ambassadors of our sport. He often speaks of how important his family is, education is and how risky the sport can be. The injuries are a small part of what these riders are about... their commitment to training, winning and being a better person are a much larger image that is portrayed and received by those that look up to them.
I'd also like to comment on another item you wrote: "Football is a less inherently dangerous sport, but we know far more about safety and injury prevention on the playing field than on the race track."
Football has more broken ankles, broken collarbones and broken everything than the sport of motocross. When an accident happens in racing it is often severe but there are more broken bones on the field of football than the track. I believe once you call for more studies your studies, if done objectively will prove that fact.
I have played basketball in high school and ran track. I have ridden dirtbikes since that age. I have more twisted ankles from basketball than scrapes from dirtbikes. I was able to avoid a lot of injuries from riding because of my mother who forced me to wear protective gear while riding becuase she knew it was her responsibility to protect me.
You also wrote: "A Dirt bikes and their riders should be licensed, and riders should be required to wear helmets and eye protection. A minimum age for operation of all off-road motorized vehicles should be set."
With the exception of the license those things are already being done. Also, at the top level you have to be a certain age (16) before you can get a professional license. Much of what you want is already in place by the organizers and participants of the sport because they care about the participants and the sport.
You need to see these racers perform. You need to see the agility, the balance and the awesome physical talent they have (not to mention the smile on their face when they come off the track). The racers are amazing and they perform with a love you rarely find in any other sport and a dedication to being the best that you will be hard pressed to find in any other sport.
If you limit the age of the participants you only take these individuals and put them in another sport where they will break a collarbone making a tackle or an ankle trying to take a charge. They chose the sport of dirtbikes because they have a love for it. Injury is part of it and all participants understand that.
Finally I want to respond to one last comment you wrote: "...we can educate young patients and their parents about the dangers of dirt bikes. We can teach them that these vehicles are dangerous and powerful machines, not children's toys."
I hope that you allow the activists in this sport to educate you on its greatness. I hope you look at things objectively and not just from the risk standpoint. It is a dangerous sport but one with more precautions on the track than any other sport you will see.
The only thing we need now is less hysteria. Please contact the AMA or the Coombs family from Racer X for more information. The Coombs family put on one of the largest amateur races every year and they know the risk and the reward better than anyone when it comes to the younger participants. I urge you go to the Amateur Championships next year and look at the sport. I believe you will walk away with a better understanding of our sport and why we take the risk.
Yes there are injuries. Yes it is part of the sport. But we are all working on trying to limit those risks and reduce the injuries because we value the sport more than a federal government will. We value the safety of the children who we get to know, trust and respect more than some faceless agency will. We touch the lives of our fellow enthusiasts more than the ink on some piece of paper ever will.
Try as you might but all your attempts will bring is an empty federal mandate that limits more than it provides. If successful you will take away the interaction and teaching the adults in this sport can hand down. You will also limit the teachings and experience this sport provides. Teaching and experiences that have made me (and so many others) quality members of society who give more than they ever ask in return.
Ivan Liechty, M.A.
Spartanburg, SC
AMA Member
SCORE Member
BRC Member
Earthpilot
~SPONSOR~
- Jul 22, 2002
- 71
- 0
I would HIGHLY suggest that EVERYONE reading this irresponsible
piece of so called "journalism" send an "intelligent" response to
both the author and newpaper editor. I believe that anyone is entitled
to their opinion in this country, but when such an article is written based
on someones "perceptions" and a total lack of knowledge or research ,
along with an editor that has "dirty laundry" mentality we all lose...
motorcyclists, bicyclists, EVERYONE! SPEAK UP NOW!! Let the responsible
parties know how you feel about ridiculous threats against your recreation,
family and to many their careers. It doesn't hurt to tell a few thousand
friends to speak up also, it eventually comes down to a numbers game.
piece of so called "journalism" send an "intelligent" response to
both the author and newpaper editor. I believe that anyone is entitled
to their opinion in this country, but when such an article is written based
on someones "perceptions" and a total lack of knowledge or research ,
along with an editor that has "dirty laundry" mentality we all lose...
motorcyclists, bicyclists, EVERYONE! SPEAK UP NOW!! Let the responsible
parties know how you feel about ridiculous threats against your recreation,
family and to many their careers. It doesn't hurt to tell a few thousand
friends to speak up also, it eventually comes down to a numbers game.
truespode
Moderator / Wheelie King
- Jun 30, 1999
- 7,990
- 252
These links will help people realize the facts about sports...
http://www.safekids.org/tier3_cd.cfm?folder_id=540&content_item_id=1211
http://www.safekids.org/tier3_cd.cfm?folder_id=300&content_item_id=370
http://www.safekids.org/tier3_cd.cfm?folder_id=300&content_item_id=505
http://www.safekids.org/tier3_cd.cfm?folder_id=177&content_item_id=342
http://www.safekids.org/tier3_cd.cfm?folder_id=178&content_item_id=346
http://www.safekids.org/tier3_cd.cfm?folder_id=540&content_item_id=1030
Ivan
http://www.safekids.org/tier3_cd.cfm?folder_id=540&content_item_id=1211
http://www.safekids.org/tier3_cd.cfm?folder_id=300&content_item_id=370
http://www.safekids.org/tier3_cd.cfm?folder_id=300&content_item_id=505
http://www.safekids.org/tier3_cd.cfm?folder_id=177&content_item_id=342
http://www.safekids.org/tier3_cd.cfm?folder_id=178&content_item_id=346
http://www.safekids.org/tier3_cd.cfm?folder_id=540&content_item_id=1030
Ivan
- Jan 1, 2001
- 3,043
- 9
Motocross, football, skiing, bicycles, horseback riding, swimming....hell it's plenty dangerous just sending your kid to school every day.
Ivan,
Another great commentary. I'll bet you were the captain of the debate team in school. Very professional.
Another great commentary. I'll bet you were the captain of the debate team in school. Very professional.
dklink2000
Damn Yankees
- Feb 18, 2002
- 764
- 0
Has anyone heard back from the good doctor?
- Jun 9, 2002
- 9,535
- 0
My response ...
Dear Dr Swan:
I would like to respond to your recently published article in the www.post-gazette.com entitled Children and motorized bikes are a dangerous combination. The article is well written and clearly expresses your concern for the young people in you care. With that being said, I do take exception to the belief that regulation might, in any way, correct the ills of motorcycles as you view them.
Clearly motorcycles are dangerous, but so are the myriad of sports available to the youth of America. Football, baseball, and basketball among others contribute their share of injuries. As evidenced by Christopher Reeves, horses can be very dangerous, regardless of the fact that many young girls are actively involved in equestrian events. Many young boys have had their rotator cuffs damaged by the simple act of repeatedly throwing baseballs. None of the references sports (including the act of riding and/or racing motorcycles) would benefit by Federal or State oversight. Indeed, regulation would more likely be counterproductive because it would create an atmosphere where attorneys chumming the waters for work would become the norm.
As you are aware, your profession has been under attack for many years. To date, the only changes have been for many in your profession to test infinitely, oftentimes to assure a deep and fruitful paper trail for your decisions. This, in no way, resolves the original problem, that of people taking responsibility for their own situation and care.
I believe the same case would apply with regulation of any youth sport. There is a tremendous responsibility that goes with being a parent, and clearly the parent of the youth you referenced at the top of your article should have stepped in and taken better control of the situation. Many organized and disorganized sports activities are undertaken daily, with and without parental support. Motorcycling is not one of them. It is an expensive sport that requires support at many levels. The American Motorcyclist Association endeavors to provide rules for involvement in the sport for all age groups. Safety equipment is one of the absolutes in the AMA equation. Meanwhile, many children are hurt on playgrounds, because the people overseeing the activities do not view the activity as seriously as the children involved.
My son and daughter spent many years in organized sports, and we many times suffered the economic hardships required to provide all the safety equipment we believed to be necessary. We, as parents, were not unique. I do believe we were in the minority, based upon the number of children I saw being "dropped off" during my career bench warming the stands while watching my children's sports.
You wrote, "What were these kids doing to themselves, and why were their parents permitting them to do it?" This is the crux of the problem today. Regulation will not solves the ills of America. Good parenting may not, but it has a better chance, if for no other reason that the closer proximity to the issues.
You wrote, "A first step would be mandatory reporting of all injuries or deaths associated with off-road racing." Regulation and reporting of injury and death has done little to stem the tide of people involved daily in automobile accidents. I do not believe that studies will foster a greater understanding than what we currently possess. The motorcycle industry announces "new and improved" safety equipment almost daily. The industry distinctly understands the risks in a way that no government study ever can. The Federal Government actively contemplated requiring seat belts on motorcycles at one point, but came to realize the inherent dangers of being securely tied to a motorcycle in the case of an accident. This clairvoyant understanding came after a long education process undertaken by motorcyclists.
In closing, I would like to ask you to step out of your emotions regarding the incident you referenced for a moment and look objectively at the greater picture. Although I agree that the injuries you describe are tragic, I believe you will come to understand that governmental intervention is a slippery slope that has been tried many times before without any verifiable degree of long term success. We, as individuals, have no choice other than taking responsibility for ours lives and the lives of those in our care. No amount of governmental study and/or regulation can reduce that responsibility.
Thank you very much for both your time and consideration. Please feel free to contact me via e-mail at teeds@whiterockstudio.com if you would like to reply or if I can clarify any of my comments.
Sincerely,
W. Anthony Eeds
Dear Dr Swan:
I would like to respond to your recently published article in the www.post-gazette.com entitled Children and motorized bikes are a dangerous combination. The article is well written and clearly expresses your concern for the young people in you care. With that being said, I do take exception to the belief that regulation might, in any way, correct the ills of motorcycles as you view them.
Clearly motorcycles are dangerous, but so are the myriad of sports available to the youth of America. Football, baseball, and basketball among others contribute their share of injuries. As evidenced by Christopher Reeves, horses can be very dangerous, regardless of the fact that many young girls are actively involved in equestrian events. Many young boys have had their rotator cuffs damaged by the simple act of repeatedly throwing baseballs. None of the references sports (including the act of riding and/or racing motorcycles) would benefit by Federal or State oversight. Indeed, regulation would more likely be counterproductive because it would create an atmosphere where attorneys chumming the waters for work would become the norm.
As you are aware, your profession has been under attack for many years. To date, the only changes have been for many in your profession to test infinitely, oftentimes to assure a deep and fruitful paper trail for your decisions. This, in no way, resolves the original problem, that of people taking responsibility for their own situation and care.
I believe the same case would apply with regulation of any youth sport. There is a tremendous responsibility that goes with being a parent, and clearly the parent of the youth you referenced at the top of your article should have stepped in and taken better control of the situation. Many organized and disorganized sports activities are undertaken daily, with and without parental support. Motorcycling is not one of them. It is an expensive sport that requires support at many levels. The American Motorcyclist Association endeavors to provide rules for involvement in the sport for all age groups. Safety equipment is one of the absolutes in the AMA equation. Meanwhile, many children are hurt on playgrounds, because the people overseeing the activities do not view the activity as seriously as the children involved.
My son and daughter spent many years in organized sports, and we many times suffered the economic hardships required to provide all the safety equipment we believed to be necessary. We, as parents, were not unique. I do believe we were in the minority, based upon the number of children I saw being "dropped off" during my career bench warming the stands while watching my children's sports.
You wrote, "What were these kids doing to themselves, and why were their parents permitting them to do it?" This is the crux of the problem today. Regulation will not solves the ills of America. Good parenting may not, but it has a better chance, if for no other reason that the closer proximity to the issues.
You wrote, "A first step would be mandatory reporting of all injuries or deaths associated with off-road racing." Regulation and reporting of injury and death has done little to stem the tide of people involved daily in automobile accidents. I do not believe that studies will foster a greater understanding than what we currently possess. The motorcycle industry announces "new and improved" safety equipment almost daily. The industry distinctly understands the risks in a way that no government study ever can. The Federal Government actively contemplated requiring seat belts on motorcycles at one point, but came to realize the inherent dangers of being securely tied to a motorcycle in the case of an accident. This clairvoyant understanding came after a long education process undertaken by motorcyclists.
In closing, I would like to ask you to step out of your emotions regarding the incident you referenced for a moment and look objectively at the greater picture. Although I agree that the injuries you describe are tragic, I believe you will come to understand that governmental intervention is a slippery slope that has been tried many times before without any verifiable degree of long term success. We, as individuals, have no choice other than taking responsibility for ours lives and the lives of those in our care. No amount of governmental study and/or regulation can reduce that responsibility.
Thank you very much for both your time and consideration. Please feel free to contact me via e-mail at teeds@whiterockstudio.com if you would like to reply or if I can clarify any of my comments.
Sincerely,
W. Anthony Eeds
steve talley
Sponsoring Member
- Oct 17, 2002
- 94
- 0
Great letters , let us know if she emails back
Thump
Jr Admin Type
- Jan 17, 2000
- 4,656
- 7
Sent by me:
Dr. Swan,
I read your article from www.post-gazette.com. I thought it was quite biased and opinionated. This will be short and to the point.
Do you really want the government to step in and take away another right of our citizens? What will it accomplish? Well for starters it will make it easier for someone else to want the government to regulate snow skiing, or sledding, or bicycling, or fishing... football, baseball, hide-n-seek, hunting, pin the tail on the donkey, paint ball and about any other activity our children do. It also takes away their sense of adventure and free will, not to mention that it may just be a family past time to some, much like going to the archery range or going for a bicycle ride. Lastly it will only encourage kids to do more of what is killing society... that is encourage them to sit inside and play video games, TV, eat because they are bored and shy away from physical activities in general.
I don't know about you but I want my kids to be able to go out and PLAY like I did when I was a kid. I want them to be adventurous and be their own person. And I will be appalled if the day ever comes that my child would rather sit inside and watch TV or video games if given the opportunity to play an outside activity such as soccer or dirt bike riding.
I understand your concern, but your opinions are based off of lack of knowledge.
Regards,
David Vaught
Dr. Swan,
I read your article from www.post-gazette.com. I thought it was quite biased and opinionated. This will be short and to the point.
Do you really want the government to step in and take away another right of our citizens? What will it accomplish? Well for starters it will make it easier for someone else to want the government to regulate snow skiing, or sledding, or bicycling, or fishing... football, baseball, hide-n-seek, hunting, pin the tail on the donkey, paint ball and about any other activity our children do. It also takes away their sense of adventure and free will, not to mention that it may just be a family past time to some, much like going to the archery range or going for a bicycle ride. Lastly it will only encourage kids to do more of what is killing society... that is encourage them to sit inside and play video games, TV, eat because they are bored and shy away from physical activities in general.
I don't know about you but I want my kids to be able to go out and PLAY like I did when I was a kid. I want them to be adventurous and be their own person. And I will be appalled if the day ever comes that my child would rather sit inside and watch TV or video games if given the opportunity to play an outside activity such as soccer or dirt bike riding.
I understand your concern, but your opinions are based off of lack of knowledge.
Regards,
David Vaught
- Aug 2, 2000
- 13,504
- 19
- Thread starter
- #21
Keep sending those emails. :thumb:
(I'd post mine, but I'm not near as edumacated soundin' as ol' Ivan and Thump :confused: )
(I'd post mine, but I'm not near as edumacated soundin' as ol' Ivan and Thump :confused: )
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