Biodiesel?
- Thread starter Papakeith
- Start date
- Aug 2, 2000
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don't do it, PK. It'll really only work well in a rig if you start with it. You'll be changing fuel filters like crazy for a while (the biodiesel has something more of a solvent effect, and it will slick up every bit of goo and grit and plug the filters). Once you get to the point, I wouldn't advise going back to real diesel, or you'll just be going through those filters all over again.
I think biodiesel was a noble idea, but it takes more fuel to make it than you get out of it (when you go all the way down the production line)
I think biodiesel was a noble idea, but it takes more fuel to make it than you get out of it (when you go all the way down the production line)
- Dec 26, 1999
- 19,765
- 1
These guys have some pretty decent discussions on the various alternatives for fueling a diesel. You gota' sort thru some of the static like anyplace but it's a large community with a lot of people that are really in to alternative fuels and a bunch of guys with some serious diesel knowledge.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/forumdisplay.php?f=52
http://forums.tdiclub.com/forumdisplay.php?f=52
- Oct 13, 1999
- 2,807
- 0
Be careful. The owner of a local riding stable was making biodiesel, for running his tractor, in one of the barns. The barn caught fire, due to a faulty salamander. The biodiesel, ~500 gallons, was stored in a plastic fuel tank. The tank melted and the leaking fuel spread the fire to the acetelyne tank storage area. We heard the explosions at our house ~2 miles away. The barn and stable was a total loss. Luckily they were able to remove all the horses.
- Oct 13, 1999
- 2,807
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You're both correct to some extent. It takes very little energy to convert corn into biodiesel. However when you factor in the energy consumed to plow the field, plant, harvest and transport the corn to processing consumption can quickly outweigh production.MrLuckey said:
- Aug 2, 2000
- 13,504
- 19
Yes, Ed, I was factoring the growing/harvesting of the biomass as well . . . I agree with you that the actual manufacture is relatively cheap.WoodsRider said:
- Aug 2, 2000
- 13,504
- 19
yeah, but then you gotta factor that into the manufacturing of the biodiesel . . . at least until we have enough of a stock of biodiesel to make things work . . . right?Patman said:
then again, there's an animal based option . . .
http://e85.whipnet.net/alt.fuel/animal.fat.html
- Dec 26, 1999
- 19,765
- 1
My point being it takes energy for both, I would also make an educated guess that the giant tankers that crude is imported in take more go juice than your average bass boat. The infrastructure is in place for crude conversion so it's less expensive apply the same efforts to bio and it would seem to make sense it could be every bit as cheap or even cheaper. Part of the reason bio isn't currently a cheap alternative and thus not a real viable options is that it has to be moved around by truck not pushed thru a pipeline like most gas / diesel / oil.
- Aug 2, 2000
- 13,504
- 19
when in Rome
- Nov 25, 1999
- 7,926
- 43
Patman, I agree with your assessment but the fact is that the majority of the infrastructure for crude production, transportation(pipelines), and refining are largely in place and functioning.
I've read articles where local COOPs have been producing biodesiel and have been successful. While the technology is promising and SHOULD continue to evolve, petroleum is still the mainstay. I know one guy that runs an old 70's MB on biodesiel and has been for about 15 years. He's sold on it and doesn't mind all of the effort that it takes to get the grease from the fast food joints. It's gotten harder for him with many others now competing for the grease.
I have no experience in the use of biodesiel. I would likely benefit from it for the tractor and bulldozer but I have so many sticks in the fire I'm just not interested. The point made about safety is what concerns me. Suddenly having neighbors refining fuel in the garage constitutes a public hazard IMO. If you have sufficient seperation from others and have strict safety proceedures, have at it. Doing this refining in a suburban neighborhood is reckless and potentially deadly to yourself and your neighbors.
I've read articles where local COOPs have been producing biodesiel and have been successful. While the technology is promising and SHOULD continue to evolve, petroleum is still the mainstay. I know one guy that runs an old 70's MB on biodesiel and has been for about 15 years. He's sold on it and doesn't mind all of the effort that it takes to get the grease from the fast food joints. It's gotten harder for him with many others now competing for the grease.
I have no experience in the use of biodesiel. I would likely benefit from it for the tractor and bulldozer but I have so many sticks in the fire I'm just not interested. The point made about safety is what concerns me. Suddenly having neighbors refining fuel in the garage constitutes a public hazard IMO. If you have sufficient seperation from others and have strict safety proceedures, have at it. Doing this refining in a suburban neighborhood is reckless and potentially deadly to yourself and your neighbors.
- Thread starter
- #14
Pred, I get you with the clogged fuel filter thing. It's something I'll have to think about.
As for the processing of the oil, I don't think I'd brew in anything other than an out building or at the very least a lean-to that is separated from everything. I'm leaning toward a separate structure of some kind. don't want or need to burn down my own stuff.
I also don't see a need for me to do anything more than 10-20 gallon batches. Not that 10 gallons can't make a fierce flame, but If it goes, it's not going to take out the neighborhood. Not that I have a neighborhood. My nearest neighbor is more than a couple hundred yards away.
I haven't decided if I'm going to do this or not. Cold weather will be an issue. I don't really want to deal with gelled fuel. I heat with oil, so I could see me using this to heat my house and saving a bundle on heat and hot water over the year.
Production costs:
I will be using WVO, so aside from the lye, methanol and some electricity costs, my cost per gallon should be pretty low. I'll have to crunch some numbers.
Much like people who heat with wood don't factor in the cost of their time to harvest and prep the wood, I'll have to consider my time to brew a null factor.
Of all of it finding a source of waste oil will probably be my biggest hurdle. There are a number of commercial biodiesel plants in RI, and many other oil recovery companies that I'll be competing with for my supply. I'll need to canvas the local restaurants to see what I can get.
As for the processing of the oil, I don't think I'd brew in anything other than an out building or at the very least a lean-to that is separated from everything. I'm leaning toward a separate structure of some kind. don't want or need to burn down my own stuff.
I also don't see a need for me to do anything more than 10-20 gallon batches. Not that 10 gallons can't make a fierce flame, but If it goes, it's not going to take out the neighborhood. Not that I have a neighborhood. My nearest neighbor is more than a couple hundred yards away.
I haven't decided if I'm going to do this or not. Cold weather will be an issue. I don't really want to deal with gelled fuel. I heat with oil, so I could see me using this to heat my house and saving a bundle on heat and hot water over the year.
Production costs:
I will be using WVO, so aside from the lye, methanol and some electricity costs, my cost per gallon should be pretty low. I'll have to crunch some numbers.
Much like people who heat with wood don't factor in the cost of their time to harvest and prep the wood, I'll have to consider my time to brew a null factor.
Of all of it finding a source of waste oil will probably be my biggest hurdle. There are a number of commercial biodiesel plants in RI, and many other oil recovery companies that I'll be competing with for my supply. I'll need to canvas the local restaurants to see what I can get.
the fuel filter problem is easy just add a large sediment trap or coarse grade filter before the originals and if you have to double the maintenance program.
what my brother has been doing has been saving his own kitchen grease and letting it set, scrapes off the fat ,and when he gets 5 galls of clear kitchen oil. he will mix it in with 5 galls of heating oil and try to homogenize it well .Filter it and toss it in his oil tank right before he fills up. no great revelation or answer to the worlds problem but it is basicly an easy 15$ every time he does it.
oops lemme clarify home heating oil tank, I beleive he has 150 gal tank so the concentration level is very low . His tank is in his basement so cold weather issues will not be a problem . but if you happen to scrape off the saturated fats off the kitchen oil on the coldest day of the year you will be fine for the rest
what my brother has been doing has been saving his own kitchen grease and letting it set, scrapes off the fat ,and when he gets 5 galls of clear kitchen oil. he will mix it in with 5 galls of heating oil and try to homogenize it well .Filter it and toss it in his oil tank right before he fills up. no great revelation or answer to the worlds problem but it is basicly an easy 15$ every time he does it.
oops lemme clarify home heating oil tank, I beleive he has 150 gal tank so the concentration level is very low . His tank is in his basement so cold weather issues will not be a problem . but if you happen to scrape off the saturated fats off the kitchen oil on the coldest day of the year you will be fine for the rest
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true , I didn't really explain in my 1st post but he only uses his own kitchen waste, and he isn't generating much, summer time will collect more than he needs but winter time uses more than he generates in a year.
It will definately vary from person to person on how much kitchen cooking is done compared to how much oil is consumed. For my brother he has never collected more than 1/2 of a 55gallon drum of mix by the end of summer and by the end of winter the 55gal drum would be empty. So it atleast gets purged every year.
I am not sure what he gains in savings by the end of a year but it really isn't much and he is saving a few pennies compared to just dumping the kitchen fat down the drain clogging pipes.It is nothing more than"why throw it away if I can use it scenerio"
In PapaKeith's case of running farm equipment and a generalization that farm houses are usually large(often times generations of a family will live in the same house) and farmers are usually pretty darn busy sun up to sundown, he might just wonder why the hell bother since 1500 gals of fuel to a 5 gals of kitchen grease is more trouble than it' s worth. If he has to drive across town wasting time and money to pick up the grease he probably won't see any gain, but if he empties his french fry cooker into the tank of his tractor before he fills it up and uses the tractor for the day atleast he doesn't have to find away to get rid of the french fry oil and saves a few pennies at that time.
And you also could have a real problem of rats ,cats and raccoons trying to store any collectings for any length of time
It will definately vary from person to person on how much kitchen cooking is done compared to how much oil is consumed. For my brother he has never collected more than 1/2 of a 55gallon drum of mix by the end of summer and by the end of winter the 55gal drum would be empty. So it atleast gets purged every year.
I am not sure what he gains in savings by the end of a year but it really isn't much and he is saving a few pennies compared to just dumping the kitchen fat down the drain clogging pipes.It is nothing more than"why throw it away if I can use it scenerio"
In PapaKeith's case of running farm equipment and a generalization that farm houses are usually large(often times generations of a family will live in the same house) and farmers are usually pretty darn busy sun up to sundown, he might just wonder why the hell bother since 1500 gals of fuel to a 5 gals of kitchen grease is more trouble than it' s worth. If he has to drive across town wasting time and money to pick up the grease he probably won't see any gain, but if he empties his french fry cooker into the tank of his tractor before he fills it up and uses the tractor for the day atleast he doesn't have to find away to get rid of the french fry oil and saves a few pennies at that time.
And you also could have a real problem of rats ,cats and raccoons trying to store any collectings for any length of time
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