Castor Vs. Synthetic vs. partially synthetic

[FMX_novice]

1995 cr125
Ive been running Bel-Ray H1R fully synthetic mix oil at 40:1 in my 93 octane mobil gas. And my bike has always run rich and the powervalve would not operate correctly within the first 8 minutes or so of riding my bike. I was desperate to stop this because i was running a lean ratio of oil, still rich and still having powervalve problemos. I talked to the guy the cycle shop i go to and he suggested running Maximas Castor 927 in any bike older then 1999 Castor 927 is natural oil with special synthetic additives in it. It says on the box that it stops spark plug fouling, carbon formation, and engine wear.
I noticed that the Castor 927 had a strong smell that is what most people think of when they hear oil, and it was thinner then the almost neutral smelling, thick H1R. Will this stuff actually solve my sticky powervalve problems and why does synthetic stuff not work as well in older bikes?

 

[TrackMaster]

Had the same problem...

I use Maxima Castor 927 and used to run Maxima Super M. They both work a lot better than the synthetic stuff I used at one time. I have no idea why the synthetic stuff doesnt work.. But the Castor works excellent!!! I havent fouled a plug in about 6 monthes.. And when I took it apart, it was actually CLEAN! I couldnt believe it! That stuff works. I mix at 32:1 by the way.. Have done 40:1, but its jetted for 32:1

 

[FMX_novice]

Hmm, that sounds good. I cant wait to run thru this tank of H1R so i can use the 927. If scientists have scientifically produced an oil to do a specific job, why doesnt it work as well as something nature unknowingly produced to do the same job? It makes you wonder how smart those scientists really are.

 

[Rich Rohrich]

Originally posted by FMX_novice
It makes you wonder how smart those scientists really are.

From the looks of this thread they are clearly smarter than you :)

 

[FMX_novice]

Ok Rich, you have the same name as me so im gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. Explain how these scientists are smarter then me, when both Bel-Rays and Maximas bottles say 2 stroke racing oil. Yet a semi-synthetic, which was partially engineered by scientists performs better then a full synthetic completely designed by a scientist.
Dont diss me unless you can explain where my logic or information is bad.

 

[Rich Rohrich]

Originally posted by FMX_novice
Yet a semi-synthetic, which was partially engineered by scientists performs better then a full synthetic completely designed by a scientist.

The flaws in your logic start with your automatically assuming a semi-synthetic performs better than a full synthetic. It spirals downward from there :confused:

 

[FMX_novice]

Ok dude stop the Stephen Hawkings act and give me the info. The semi-synthetic runs better in my 2 stroke high performance (FMF Pipes, Shaved Head, Wiseco Piston) engine. I rode my bike today with the semi-synthetic in it and it barely smokes. i noticed theres no bogging on the low end and my powervalve works right after i warm it up.

 

[DKT735]

FMX:
Did you check the jetting when you ran the synthetic oil? From my perspective the best thing to do for a sticky powervalve is to clean it. Unless the black goo thats inside the power valve cover is really bad, carbon that may accumulate on the valves themselves will cause them to stick. Pull it apart and clean it.

If you think semi-synthetic works for you that's great. It's your bike and you pay the repair bills. Use what ever you like and have fun.

I don't want to put words in Rich's mouth but a blanket statement of one oil type is better than another without stating the characteristics that make the oil better is the flaw in your logic. What do you think are some of the jobs oil is supposed to do? Most oils will do a good job of lubrication. But in a 2 stroke it must also burn clean and not inhibit the combustion process. I've learned alot by chatting with the folks at Precision Automotive Research. Email them if you want to be enlightened. If your powervalve is gummed up, the combustion process in your engine is not happening the way it should. The symptoms you describe to base your decision on which oil is better could be solved by jetting the bike. Simply stating that it is the oil's fault may be over simplification.

 

[Duneman]

I run Maxima as well and to me it is the best oil you can get, but, before you blame the oil you should learn how to jet your bike, just because you have a lean mixture does not mean your bike is going to run lean, you can run a mix that is really rich and your bike will run really lean. do some research on it, it's really cool how it all works out.........:D

 

[Rich Rohrich]

Originally posted by FMX_novice
give me the info.

It looks like you've gotten plenty of good info. Hopefully you'll put it to good use.

 

[IBWFO]

100% synthetic is better than any other oil unless you are breaking in your bike, in which you will need the petroleum based oil to help seat the rings.
Castor is one of the dirtiest oils out there and is usually recommended for use in high reving engines. Try running 50/50 race gas/ pump gas with Motul 100% synthetic at around 45-50:1. If you use 100% race gas you can easily go to 60:1

 

[Rich Rohrich]

Originally posted by IBWFO
100% synthetic is better than any other oil unless you are breaking in your bike

That's not true either. Huge general blanket statements about oil rarely are.

Whether or not one oil will prove to be superior to another has to do with the makeup of the oil (base stock and additive package) and the application it is used in.

If you pick a name brand oil and use it the way the manufacturer recommends you aren't likely to EVER have an oil related issue.

Castor based oil tends to get an undeserved bad rap because it is routinely used by people who have no business running it. Castor based products are very application specific, and general motocross use by amatuers (riders and tuners) isn't the best place for it.

 

[IBWFO]

Given the subject and forum (motorcycles) my blanket statement wasn't too far off.
True synthetic oil has been found to be far superior in every test comparison.
Like I said, Castor oil has it's most significant gains in "High RPM and High heat" conditions. (primarily alcohol related mixtures) It is and has always been a very "dirty" oil, albeit Maxima is probably the most refined and quality Castor on the market.
Because of the "esters" in true synthetic oil it has the abilities to actually flow to "hot" areas and literally "stick" to metal, unlike petroleum based oils.
We could go into it further but I think you get my point.
Regards

 

[Rich Rohrich]

Originally posted by IBWFO
Given the subject and forum (motorcycles) my blanket statement wasn't too far off.

My preference is certainly towards synthetics in most cases but just because an oil is synthetic doesn't automatically make it a superior product. That seems to be the point where people routinely slide off the logic path in these discussions :)

 

[Duneman]

I have talked to Mitch Payton personally and he said he use's Maxima Castor, and recomends it,man he's an idiot.:silly:

 

[FMX_novice]

Ok i pulled my powervalve covers, and found that there was a thick film of blackened oil and when i opened the cover some spilled out like it was sitting there :scream: . My plug color looks really good tho :think I cant think of an explanation for this, but maybe i misused the ratio rite cup and poured in 40:1 mix for 2.5 gallons. However that still would be 32:1. Rich for my jetting but still reasonable.
I am starting to run low on gas, would it be ok to add gas mixed 40:1 with the castor oil to the 1/2 gallon of Synthetic oil mixed gas?
Or should i completely empty the tank (and carb???)
Whose Mitch Payton, and was he payed to recommend it? What kind of bike does he ride, how does he ride it and why is he an idiot?

 

[IBWFO]

DO NOT mix any other oil with Castor oil.
Also Castor is very sensitive to cold temps and will seperate easily.
Mitch Payton is one of the most respected Race team/race shop owner/tuners ever.
Regards