Clutch Hub!

gthoma23 · Jun 13, 2008

Clutch Parts

i had some questions on a some parts for my clutch. it's a '03 CR250, so i could've put it in the honda section, but i figure that any brand owner could help me out..

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this is a pic of my clutch center basket is what i thnk it's called. the part the springs go around. but are these grooves normal? or does this mean i need to get a new one?

i didn't take a picture of the clutch springs, but they were half pink and half black, do they come stock pink and part of the color came off? and measured 45mm and the service limit is 44.7mm, so would this be a good time to change them?

[URL=http://www.picamatic.com/view/458908_IMG_3274/]

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[URL=http://www.picamatic.com/view/458912_IMG_3276/]

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going off the above pictures, is it bad to have that coating coming off on the inside and the teeth? the one with the #10 is probably the worst one.

sorry for all the newby questions, just don't wanna damage anythin if it's possible to prevent it.

thanks...

gthoma23 · Jun 17, 2008

I decided to replace the Inner Clutch Hub on my '03 CR250 and was wondering what a good brand was?

I know that a Hinson would probably be the best, but they cost like $250.

There's the Pro-X, that is is around $60, any1 tried there's?

Or is the stock the best bang for the buck at $80?

thanks for the input...

Papakeith · Jun 17, 2008

How long did the stock one last? I say go with the stock replacement. Spend your savings on fuel.

gthoma23 · Jun 17, 2008

i bought the bike used, so the guy before me could of road like a bat out of hell. it had some pretty deal grooves in it, and i don't want to have to replace a bunch of gears later.

does any1 know if the nut that holds the clutch hub and basket in is reverse thread or not?

snb73 · Jun 17, 2008

If you are refering the the Clutch Basket, Moose makes a nice one for around $135. I replaced the one in my 03RM265 a few months ago. It looks like a quality peice.

My nut lossened counter-clockwise. A good rule of thumb would be, the nut loosens in the opposite direction the basket turns.

gthoma23 · Jun 18, 2008

No, I was talking about the Center Clutch, or the Clutch Hub. I don't know if there are any other names for it. This is the part that is in between the clutch basket and the actual clutches. The part that the springs go around and the spring bolts to.

hope that helps

Papakeith · Jun 18, 2008

OK, we need some clarification then.

Which part number do you want to replace?

yz250-ridercro · Jun 18, 2008

item 6

btm1948 · Jun 18, 2008

i would have to say go with a hinson it should last longer so you dont have to be back in there by the end of the month it will probably save you money in the long run

txkawboy · Jun 18, 2008

...the first pic i am unsure what it is a pic of, so "no se".
The others look perfectly normal, incl. the description of your springs. You can do a search on clutch basket/wear indicators, but normally it is the grooves in the outer basket's "fingers" that cause grabbiness/notchy release...
ps--if u r a newbie at riding, then I recc that some $$$ well-spent on your particular CR would be to have eric gorr epoxy-up the ports on your cylinder; it used to be dirt cheap to have done, and worth its weight in gold. It will make your motor MUCH torquier and smoother, a very versatile, manageable engine, a la the 92-01 CR's...

whenfoxforks-ruled · Jun 18, 2008

I can not imagine how the springs wore into the guides, but that puppy should go in the scrap barrel. A loose inner hub may be responsible for cutting into your fibers on the inside, incredible! The paint stripe on the springs designate what weight spring it is. There, pink is good! But the length is iffy. Measure the outer hub and check the basket for notches in the outer most edge, from the outer tabs of the fibers. I would go for a complete clutch kit, and inner hub so far, give Sevice Honda a price check.

gthoma23 · Jun 18, 2008

i read on this website;

http://www.rekluse.com/Total_Clutch_Solutions.shtml

that the cause of having grooves in my clutch hub or basket may be cause of my clutch basket dampeners failure. should i know what that is? because i can't find any info on it. you guys know what they are talkin about?

whenfoxforks-ruled said:
I can not imagine how the springs wore into the guides, but that puppy should go in the scrap barrel. A loose inner hub may be responsible for cutting into your fibers on the inside, incredible! Measure the outer hub and check the basket for notches in the outer most edge, from the outer tabs of the fibers. I would go for a complete clutch kit, and inner hub so far, give Sevice Honda a price check.

there are notches in my basket too. how bad do they had to be for me to need to replace the basket? cause they are expensive. and i'm gonna get a new clutch kit and inner hub...kinda broke mine. but i'm tryin to make sure this doesn't happen again. what brand of clutch components do you like? or any1 for that matter??

txkawboy said:
...the first pic i am unsure what it is a pic of, so "no se".
The others look perfectly normal, incl. the description of your springs.ps--if u r a newbie at riding, then I recc that some $$$ well-spent on your particular CR would be to have eric gorr epoxy-up the ports on your cylinder; a la the 92-01 CR's...

the first pic is of the clutch hub, where the 6 rod like things come out (no idea on the name.) it's the inside of one of those rods where the springs would go around. goin off the pic that Papakeith was nice enough to put on here. and mine in a '03, which i think they did a better job on the porting that year, could be wrong. but yeah, i do want to send my cylinder off to have it ported. i've heard mixed reviews on eric gorr though, either really good or the terrible. what type of port would u suggest? i was thinkin a bottom to midrange.

btm1948 said:
i would have to say go with a hinson it should last longer so you dont have to be back in there by the end of the month it will probably save you money in the long run

I did a search for clutch hubs, and read some forums. almost no1 had anythin good to say about Hinson clutch hubs. every1 agreed they had nice baskets, but they said the hubs sucked. not sayin it's true, just statin what i read.

Papakeith said:
OK, we need some clarification then. Which part number do you want to replace?

it would be the number 6 on this chart, and thanx for puttin it on here. I think the actual name that it would say is "clutch center." i could get you the part number if my discription still isn't makin sense.

i talked to a local shop and they said the Pro-X was as good if not better than OEM, and is cheaper. I think I might have to go with them just for the amount of money for a hinson is over 200.

and thanx for all the feed back, helps a ton gettin other peoples opinions. :laugh:

gthoma23 · Jun 18, 2008

here's the pic of the clutch hub. and those 6 pieces of metal that are in the middle are what i was calling rods.

Papakeith · Jun 18, 2008

If you have a notched basket along with all of the other wear you describe it's probably time to replace the center and the basket, as well as the fiber and the plates in the clutch pack.

How deep are the groves in the bolt posts on the center? Are they groves or just worn shiny? If just shiny I'd just reuse it. Assuming of course that the rest of the center wasn't worn.

If it were me I'd just bite the bullet and replace everything except the pressure plate and even that is contingent on passing an inspection. I know it sucks dollar wise, but why do it half-assed and just have to replace the parts again sooner just because you skimped the first time around?

gthoma23 · Jun 18, 2008

Papakeith said:
If you have a notched basket along with all of the other wear you describe it's probably time to replace the center and the basket, as well as the fiber and the plates in the clutch pack.

How deep are the groves in the bolt posts on the center? Are they groves or just worn shiny? If just shiny I'd just reuse it. Assuming of course that the rest of the center wasn't worn.

If it were me I'd just bite the bullet and replace everything except the pressure plate and even that is contingent on passing an inspection. I know it sucks dollar wise, but why do it half-assed and just have to replace the parts again sooner just because you skimped the first time around?

well the grooves in the clutch hub are the first pic i posted, and the grooves in the basket are not as bad as the one on the website i posted. if u guys want some pics of the basket, i can get them up here pretty soon. and i agree i should do it right the first time, but i'm not tryin to be a dick, but isn't it half-asked? cause if ya think about it, how could u do somethin that is half of ur actual ass...haha. but if u say half asked, u would be doing half of what u were asked to do. some1 told me that, and it made sense. sorry to change the subject, but i always wanted to bring that up and see what people thought.

Papakeith · Jun 18, 2008

http://www.bartleby.com/61/13/H0021300.html

whenfoxforks-ruled · Jun 19, 2008

How many of the spring posts are broke in the inner pressure? I used a pro x piston, a couple of times, seemingly of chinese quality. I did believe oem was better. Oem honda clutches are the best out of japan or europe. That clutch went to hell because of abuse, either long term neglect or straight up clutch abuse. My dream clutch would be a wiseco basket with hinson hubs, and oem honda plates and springs. Real world I would go with all oem. Them pink springs came out in 06, probably the last time the clutch was serviced. The first time you can file them notches out of the basket pretty easy. It is aluminum and files real easy, just try and do them all the same and keep them square. If you file them all till they just disappear, they will be real close to being the same dimensions. Issues come from doing this too much, you get too great a distance in between the slots, the plates do go back and forth. Usually the notches are on the driven side, some abusers get both sides. In the owners manual it has expected service life of parts. I would check your bearings at the rate this is going.

gthoma23 · Jun 19, 2008

whenfoxforks-ruled said:
How many of the spring posts are broke in the inner pressure? I used a pro x piston, a couple of times, seemingly of chinese quality. I did believe oem was better. Oem honda clutches are the best out of japan or europe. That clutch went to hell because of abuse, either long term neglect or straight up clutch abuse. My dream clutch would be a wiseco basket with hinson hubs, and oem honda plates and springs. Real world I would go with all oem. Them pink springs came out in 06, probably the last time the clutch was serviced. The first time you can file them notches out of the basket pretty easy. It is aluminum and files real easy, just try and do them all the same and keep them square. If you file them all till they just disappear, they will be real close to being the same dimensions. Issues come from doing this too much, you get too great a distance in between the slots, the plates do go back and forth. Usually the notches are on the driven side, some abusers get both sides. In the owners manual it has expected service life of parts. I would check your bearings at the rate this is going.

i just broke one of the post, if that's what they are called. and did you mean you have used a Pro-X clutch hub? cause just cause they make one bad product doesn't mean everythin they make is bad. i agree though, that the chances of them making a terrible hub is higher cause they make terrible pistons. but for the price i went with it so i hope it's nice. and i really think the clutch was stock, but i could be wrong. and maybe the guy before me did tear up the clutch, because i don't think i could have caused the damage. i changed the oil regularly, and i'm a pretty skinny guy. but i am new, so i probably ride the clutch more.

and u really think the stock clutches are better? usually aftermarket is better and cheaper, but maybe they did somethin right on the clutch. and i'm pretty sure my manual doesn't say anything about an actual depth the notches could be, but i'm check again. and filing just scares me. i just don't want to throw all this money into a new hub and clutches and have the basket tear them up. but i think i'm gonna file them a little and put the Pro-X Hub with an okay clutch plates. this way, if the basket has to be replaced i didn't spend a ton of money, and i can ride soon cause those stock and aftermarket baskets are expensive.

Papakeith said:
http://www.bartleby.com/61/13/H0021300.html

touché...but i still think half-asked sounds a lot better. our language is so jacked up....guess that's what ya get when ya mix everythin together.

whenfoxforks-ruled · Jun 19, 2008

You do not have a measurement for the width of the notches. It should be visible if it was filed before. They all hit evenly, you file it squarely till it just disappears, not 1 stroke more. And it will be fine. Is the outer hub grooved on the face where the plates rub, no lips on the edges? Pro x's piston life was way shorter, and the black coating lasted maybe 10 strokes. My son had to be 1 of the worst clutch abusers ever. All them aftermarket fiber plates do not hold a stick to oem honda. For the price of aftermarket hubs and basket, you had better be making some money! OEM are fine on that model. Keeping the oil changed is a big help.

Papakeith · Jun 20, 2008

Agreed the English language is a mess. I just did a quick search and found that so I had to share :).

I doubt that you'll find any service manual that would recommend shaving the basket fingers. Can it be done? Yes. Have I done it in the past? Yes. Did it extend the life of the worn part? Yes. Was it worth the effort? Not really. The extra slack would just promote an increased wear rate.
I just went through a clutch rebuild myself and I ended up getting all of my parts from Service Honda. I went with the factory basket. It comes with a new ring gear riveted on (No screws that might back out). I also got factory replacement fiber plates.

Good luck with the clutch rebuild.

gthoma23 · Jun 20, 2008

whenfoxforks-ruled said:
You do not have a measurement for the width of the notches. It should be visible if it was filed before. They all hit evenly, you file it squarely till it just disappears, not 1 stroke more. And it will be fine. Is the outer hub grooved on the face where the plates rub, no lips on the edges? Pro x's piston life was way shorter, and the black coating lasted maybe 10 strokes. My son had to be 1 of the worst clutch abusers ever. All them aftermarket fiber plates do not hold a stick to oem honda. For the price of aftermarket hubs and basket, you had better be making some money! OEM are fine on that model. Keeping the oil changed is a big help.

i'm pretty sure that nothing has been filed before. and the Pro-X Hub i got was under 60 bucks, and the oem would cost around 20 more plus a longer ship time, which is kinda important cause i need to ride or i'm gonna freak out. and i probably should change the oil more. funny thing is, right before i started tearin this apart i told myself that cause the oil is only 7 bucks for a quart. why couldn't i have thought that way awhile ago?

Papakeith said:
Agreed the English language is a mess. I just did a quick search and found that so I had to share :).

I doubt that you'll find any service manual that would recommend shaving the basket fingers. Can it be done? Yes. Have I done it in the past? Yes. Did it extend the life of the worn part? Yes. Was it worth the effort? Not really. The extra slack would just promote an increased wear rate.
I just went through a clutch rebuild myself and I ended up getting all of my parts from Service Honda. I went with the factory basket. It comes with a new ring gear riveted on (No screws that might back out). I also got factory replacement fiber plates.

Good luck with the clutch rebuild.

u guys really think the oem clutch kits are better? i'm not sayin there not cause i don't have experience with others. but most forums say they suck cause of the 2 aluminum plates, which i guess wear the fiber plates faster. but i've heard alot of B.S. on some forums before...never on dirtrider though :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

any1 ever heard of a company that makes clutches named factory? that's what the local shop carries and they say there better than oem. maybe they meant KG clutch factory.

have you guys heard that kevlar plates contaminate oil? if so, what's the benefits of havin them?

whenfoxforks-ruled · Jun 20, 2008

Your stock clutch has them, order all steels for sure! The kit comes with springs, fibers and steels. Cheaper!

gthoma23 · Jun 22, 2008

whenfoxforks-ruled said:
Your stock clutch has them, order all steels for sure! The kit comes with springs, fibers and steels. Cheaper!

what do you mean by cheaper? are u saying that the stock clutch is cheaper? cause if you are, let me know where you get yours. cause a stock one that i've found was over a $150.

whenfoxforks-ruled · Jun 22, 2008

Buying the complete kit is cheaper than buying each piece. 126.35, thats all the plates and springs.

gthoma23 · Jun 23, 2008

whenfoxforks-ruled said:
Buying the complete kit is cheaper than buying each piece. 126.35, thats all the plates and springs.

what site did you get this info from? cause the one's i've looked at only do the parts seperate. also, didn't u say to get all steel plates? if so, does the clutch kit u are talkin about have all steels?

thanks

Clutch Hub!

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