concrete staining / grinding questions etc.

[Jeff Gilbert]

I've got pets, or to be more exact, Tigger has pets and they like to make thier mark on the carpet. I can't stand the smell, not to mention the look. I'm tired of replacing carpet and getting rid of the pets isn't exactly an acceptable avenue for Tigger so I'm looking into staining the concrete in my living room, halls, bathroom & kitchen. Problem is that I have some "blemishes" in the concrete from the tack boards as well a nice little crack. Top it off, the cement has this black stuff they used at one time to glue tile down and this stuff won't come up with kerosene & hand grenades. On to the next phase...

Seems as I need to sand, or to be more precise, grind the concrete to get it into shape for staining. Not too many people around these parts are knowledgable in this field so I'm kind of on my own. When the going gets tuff, time to post on DRN.
Anyone have any experience surfacing concrete that can recommend what type of equipment is best to clean up my current cement floor condition?
How about scoring?
Recomendations on what type / brand of stain and sealer?

 

[BSWIFT]

Jeff, most of the staining I see done to concrete is when it is wet. The grinders I see being used will cause a cloud in your house that will penatrate all that you own. Consider some floor patch and epoxy paint. You will likely want to stay in the motor home for a few days while the house airs out.

 

[Jaybird]

I once had a basement waterproofed. After they took up the old carpet, they used a machine to grind off the top surface of the concrete that had glue on it. What a mess.

You could call a carpet co (or basement waterproofer) and inquire about renting one of those jewels.

Common sealer will change the color of the concrete somewhat.

 

[Patman]

Jeff a good friend of mine here has a concrete staining company. Previously he had a patterend concrete company so he knows a little about this stuff. Here's what I've picked up from him. You need a reasonably clean surface for the stain to penetrate, you'll get cracks and blemishes no matter what. It sounds like you'll need to empty the rooms, seal off the HVAC and then hang and tape plastic and grind away, be sure an have a filter on your face! The stain process isn't terribly difficult but you can easily make a pretty big mess of it if you don't have a little working knowledge, check on the web for some basic instruction if you plan to do it yourself. Plan on sealing the surface every couple of years to keep it from absorbing "stuff" that ends up on it.

 

[shawnhug]

My wife and I have pets also and we pulled all of the carpet, vinyl, and tile to acid stain. To clean up our slab we rented a floor buffer and some black sanding pads. As for scoring I laid out 3'x3' grid with blue chalk line and used my skill saw with a diamond blade to score the patterns at 1/8" deep. The brand of stain we used was Kemiko and the sealer is Decosup. The sealer is a two part water-based epoxy/polyurethane, which has little to no odor (Since we lived in our house while the work was going on). Our entry was was a little more difficult since it has ceramic tile and we couldn't completely remove the thinset, so we had a professional come in and use a thin cement overlay and custom pattern (A steal at only $500). BTW, my wife and I frequented acid stain websites for months before we got started and even bought a 'How To' Video. It helped us out tremendously.

 

[Okiepikapp]

Jeff,

The stains will be VERY hard to get out. Last summer I did a construction project on a 100 year old building and the owner wanted a stained concrete finish. We had to rent a buffer style thing that used 3 blocks on the bottom to grind down the concrete, it will leave light swirl marks on the concrete creating a pattern, also the newer the concrete the "softer" it will be. I know it sounds werid, but the older it is the harder it gets. Like has been said previously it is can be a big mess with the dust flying around, so make sure to cover anything and everything and wear a mask! I made a mistake of cutting concrete with out one and my lungs reminded me my stupidity for a few days, so cover up! Good luck with it though, if u grind it long enough it will turn out nice. Oh and the buffer can be found at any equipment supply place and those guys know alot, so ask them for some tips! Good luck and keep us/me updated! :yeehaw:

Scott

 

[MXSparx]

Bead Blast. If you can find a Co., down your way this is the way to go. It will leave a slightly textured surface and looks good with a clear coat sealer. I have seen this done in several retail spaces in a local mall here was I was working indoors. Less dust than grinding and gives a unique look.

 

[Jeff Gilbert]

Wonder what happened to the reply I just typed?
Here's a repeat.

Thanks for the input guys. I know it's going to be a big mess but everything I own needs a good cleaning anyway. I plan on draping plastic on all the walls and air vents, maybe even the entire ceiling. Popping off the baseboards as well.

I know it's probably going to take a while to do but right now I have more time than money anyway and with the condition of the carpet, the "construction" would probably be an improvement. I may test my skills in the garage 1st, it needs a makeover too.

How are the little handheld sander / grinders for getting in the tight spots like the corners? I'm thinking of scoring a margin or border a few inches out from the wall then scoring my pattern up to the margin area.

Any recommendations on the best color to work with or any other tips? I welcome any suggestions. :cool:

 

[Jeff Gilbert]

I did think of another question. I know there are a few "imperfections" such as some busted areas where the tack boards are and if I remember correctly, there is a crack with a very slight gap under the carpet that I'lll have to fix. I know it will show but will I be able to float it out and blend it enough to look good?

 

[shawnhug]

I just left the tack strip holes the way they were and stained over them. There is also a crack running the length of my living room that I stained right over without any kind of patch. It gives the floor character. I can show you pictures of my floor but I don't know how to post them here. Or I can email them to you if you'd like.

 

[Patman]

Color doesn't matter Jeff as long as you like it because it's going to be there for a loooong time. The darker colors will cover the stains better and will not show cracks as much. Let me know if you need a pattern of some kind made, I've made a few for my friend that he has used at car dealerships and upscale loft apartments he done.

 

[Okiepikapp]

Jeff

I agree with shawn about leaving the holes there, if you try to put much of anything besides a self leveling epoxy there it will chip out and then you'll have the epoxy color to deal with. In my experience concrete does not like to have any more cement/concrete layed over it, it just wont' bond. We tried that on my project and after a few months it started cracking and flaking off. The handheld grinders are good for corners and close to the base of the walls but you wouldn't want to try and large area with one, it would take forever. MXSparx has a good idea, but may be more than you want to pay for the job. There is an acid, i can't remeber the name now, they use it to remove stains from grout that may be able to remove some stains from the concrete. Patman already hit on darker stain and pattern :) There seems to be a great wealth of knowldge on these boards, I hope we have helped!

Scott

 

[Jeff Gilbert]

Okay, carpet's up, let the mess begin!
The cracks aren't as bad as I remember from when I replaced carpet last time, think that'll be fine. I was able to pull the tack bds with great success, developed a technique somehow that didn't bust the concrete. Tools of choice were a hatchet & claw hammer.

Next obstacle, the adhesive! I can deal with the light swirls of glue used to hold the padding in place, but in the entryway has a black adhesive that was used to glue tile. The tile has been gone for years but the black crap has worked its way into the pours of the concrete. I haven't had any luck with anything getting that stuff gone. I checked at the rental place today and they have a "low speed" floor polishing machine and plenty of black pads to clean with. They also have a metal disk of some sort but not real sure what results I can expect from that. They also have 40 grit paper for the "buffer". If that isn't the best choice, they have a sanding machine that they promise will take a layer or two off the top.

I have to keep my cost down so I may be forced to experiment without causing too much damage (I hope).

 

[Tony Eeds]

Jeff:

I have seen many of these projects over the years. It is very popular in retail and has been for 10+ years. There are, at least, a couple of other threads on this issue here as well.

First ... It will turn out anything from beautiful to butt ugly.

Second ... It will magnify every imperfection currently in the floor. Every crack, scratch, gouge, stain, you name it. The ghost of the old VCT as well.

Is that bad, not in my opinion.

Draw (to scale) a plan of each room and design a pattern that fills the room. Not too intricate now because you are going to be sawing it into the face of the slab. Stay 8~12 inches away from all walls and ignore standard door openings.

Pull up the carpet, VCT, tack strips etc and remove all the glue etc. from the face of the slab.

Lay out your pattern with a chalk box on the floor and now for the fun part. :yeehaw:

You will need the following ...
knee pads
skil saw
abrasive blades (several)
big canister vacuum
ear protection

Get down on your hands and knees and saw a grove 1/16 inch or so into your slab, following the pattern. As you can imagine, you will create quite a dust storm, so seal the room off from the balance of the house and open the windows. Have someone (Tigger is perfect) follow along with the vacuum hose trying to catch as much of the duct as possible.

Now for the really fun part ...

Acid etch, stain and seal the floor.

Believe me I left out more than a few instructions in those last three steps, but they are covered much better on the cans of the various products you will need to acomplish the transformation of your floor from mild to wild.

Have fun, many of my friends have done this and MX727 and family are starting out with stained floors in their house.

The neat part is, it doesn't hurt the value of your house at all because most folks factor in putting in new carpet when they buy anyway.

Check out the L.M. Scofield website for infomation on products and locations you can purchase them. They are, by far, the largest manufacturer of products for stained concretes and are usually the color supplier for all the stamped concrete you see popping up everywhere.

Good luck and you know how to find me if you have ANY questions.

 

[Ol'89r]

There is an acid, i can't remeber the name now, they use it to remove stains from grout that may be able to remove some stains from the concrete.

Muriatic acid.

Jeff.

For the basic stains you can use Muriatic acid. It is simple swimming pool acid, available at your local builders supply. It is super cheap. You can get two gallons for about 5 bucks. Comes in a two gallon pack. Pour it on full strength and watch it bubble. Rinse with clear water. Don't leave it on too long since it can etch the concrete. Do a little test spot first. I have used it to remove some tough rust stains in concrete. Works great. :cool:

Sand blasting works good also, but makes a hella mess.

Just my $ .02

Ol'89r

 

[Jeff Gilbert]

First ... It will turn out anything from beautiful to butt ugly.

Been working on it for several days, all day today with a 175rpm buffing machin, black pads, scrub pads, metal disk, and 40 grit paper. Right now I'm leaning toward butt ugly or perhaps a nice berber :bang:

 

[Rooster]

Been working on it for several days, all day today with a 175rpm buffing machin, black pads, scrub pads, metal disk, and 40 grit paper. Right now I'm leaning toward butt ugly or perhaps a nice berber :bang:

Two words: Laminate flooring. The previous owner of my house had a dog that totally destroyed all the carpets. I pulled them up and layed down the laminate wood flooring. The stuff is super easy to put down, looks awesome, and is damn near indestructible. Perfect flooring for pets of all kinds.

 

[fhweec]

I've got pets, or to be more exact, Tigger has pets and they like to make thier mark on the carpet. I can't stand the smell, not to mention the look. I'm tired of replacing carpet and getting rid of the pets isn't exactly an acceptable avenue for Tigger so I'm looking into staining the concrete in my living room, halls, bathroom & kitchen. Problem is that I have some "blemishes" in the concrete from the tack boards as well a nice little crack. Top it off, the cement has this black stuff they used at one time to glue tile down and this stuff won't come up with kerosene & hand grenades. On to the next phase...

Seems as I need to sand, or to be more precise, grind the concrete to get it into shape for staining. Not too many people around these parts are knowledgable in this field so I'm kind of on my own. When the going gets tuff, time to post on DRN.
Anyone have any experience surfacing concrete that can recommend what type of equipment is best to clean up my current cement floor condition?
How about scoring?
Recomendations on what type / brand of stain and sealer?

Hello. I've been doing some research on floor coverings and am curious about using Concrete Stain as opposed to Epoxy. I have a 30+-year-old shop floor I'd like to spruce up. knowing I won't end up with a museum-like floor, is stain a good option? Looking for the pros and cons of each. The stain appears to be a quicker and easier product to use, as well as cheaper. I was told about the Sherwin Williams / H&C Stain and Sealer, but I'm sure there are others out there as well. thoughts and comments are appreciated. Thanks

 

[fhweec]

Hello. I've been doing some research on floor coverings and am curious about using Concrete Stain as opposed to Epoxy. I have a 30+-year-old shop floor I'd like to spruce up. knowing I won't end up with a museum-like floor, is stain a good option? Looking for the pros and cons of each. The stain appears to be a quicker and easier product to use, as well as cheaper. I was told about the Sherwin Williams / H&C Stain and Sealer, but I'm sure there are others out there as well. thoughts and comments are appreciated. Thanks

no response to this

 

[RM_guy]

no response to this

Well, you were in a thread that is 18 years old LOL

If you want an opinion, a stain or sealer will not give you any where near the durability that epoxy would. The sealer would eliminate the dust but not add much strength to the concrete surface. You'd have to check but I don't think using the sealer first would prevent you from using epoxy later so try it to see if it works as you want. Maybe just a small path in the corner someplace out of the way.

 

[fhweec]

Well, you were in a thread that is 18 years old LOL

If you want an opinion, a stain or sealer will not give you any where near the durability that epoxy would. The sealer would eliminate the dust but not add much strength to the concrete surface. You'd have to check but I don't think using the sealer first would prevent you from using epoxy later so try it to see if it works as you want. Maybe just a small path in the corner someplace out of the way. concrete staining orlando

sorry it's my bad