coolant in the engine

[HubertGarfunkleIII]

so when I was riding the other day my bike started getting real boggy. I also noticed that every 10 minutes or so after I added coolant to the radiator it was empty again. so what did the genius do you ask? kept refilling it. Eventually my bike died and I couldnt start it. I took it into the shop to get it fixed and the mechanic told me that (if i remember correctly) a gasket had blown which allowed all of the coolant to leak into the engine (which explains why i had to keep filling it). So I had a engine full of coolant. He told me that it would basically cost more to fix the bike than what it is worth and offered my $100 bucks for the thing. So is my bike gone beyond repair? What needs to be done to fix it? I was thinking if I just drained the engine of all the coolant and oil etc. than put a new gasket on so that it doesnt leak coolant anymore put some new engine oil in and the bike is good to go? yes? no?

 

[kx125412]

Really all you should have to do is drain out your tranny oil, flush it through a couple times, take off your cylinder and dump out all the coolant, redo the top end and get a new headgasket.

 

[zero_cool]

Really all you should have to do is drain out your tranny oil, flush it through a couple times, take off your cylinder and dump out all the coolant, redo the top end and get a new headgasket.

+1
I'm suprised you didn't bust a rod. Water doesn't compress to well. Flush everything and new top end. :nod:

 

[uts]

Tell the dealer to jam it. Even if you don't fix it I'm sure it is worth more than that.

 

[HubertGarfunkleIII]

Really all you should have to do is drain out your tranny oil, flush it through a couple times, take off your cylinder and dump out all the coolant, redo the top end and get a new headgasket.

how much should that cost me?

 

[snb73]

I took it into the shop to get it fixed and the mechanic told me that (if i remember correctly) a gasket had blown which allowed all of the coolant to leak into the engine (which explains why i had to keep filling it). So I had a engine full of coolant. He told me that it would basically cost more to fix the bike than what it is worth and offered my $100 bucks for the thing.

Dealers have a reputation for hiring underqualified mechanics. Do a search and you will read hundreds of horror stories. On the other hand some dealers, Service Honda, are great.

Unfortunately, you fall into the first category. The mechanic knows he can fix you bike for about $125.00 or less. If he's the type of guy to lie to you, he will probably use off-the-shelf parts witout paying the owner for them.

Top end kit; piston, rings, gaskets for $109.99

http://www.motosport.com/offroad/productDetail.php?prodId=2515&nav=3&sMMY=


Complete top and bottom rebuild, parts and labor for $525

http://www.forwardmotion.com.mx/mxenginerebuilding.html


Honestly, you have more than $100 in just your front and rear tires.

Good luck, keep us posted.

Steve

 

[83XR500R]

It's a shame they did that. Make sure that you're buddies don't go there. After you fix it as explained by the other members I would personaly go back just to tell them how you fixed it and peacefully ask why they said you're motor was beyond repair. After you hear the BS they'll try to feed you don't get mad...just get the word out that the shop sucks so others don't get screwed.

 

[Blackcat]

94 Honda CR125 needs some work $100.00 :whoa:

 

[sharky_101]

In cars at least you can put a chemical compound 'chemi-weld' in the radiator if it's leaking into the engine to seal up cracks in an engines head-block by finding air particles and blocking them, its really amazing it worked for a car a friend of mine gave to us for free and it works great $10 later and its on the road.

for bikes it may have the same principle. if u redo everything, get it running and it still leaks, with a good gasket on there and everything try something like that. good luck to ya!

 

[HubertGarfunkleIII]

yeah that place sucks, I used to think the guy was really cool because he was friendly and would talk to me and etc. But he is tattoed all over his body and looks like an ex tweeker drug addict. Since he knew I know nohting about bikes he figured he could rip me off. He said that the bike is a money pit and he didnt even want to charge me for the inspection. I thought that was really cool, but now that I think about it he was just trying to be super friendly in hopes that I would take the 100 bucks for the bike. Yeah Im definetly going to pay him a visit.

 

[junkjeeps]

It could also be your water pump seals. Make sure you check them out while your doing a top end.

 

[HubertGarfunkleIII]

my bike had a new top end with less than 5 hours on it. do you think I will still need a new top end?

 

[Blackcat]

Not if it was the water pump seal. Not sure if it was the head gasket. But I would.

 

[HubertGarfunkleIII]

ok I just talked to the original mechanic who looked at my bike. and he said that the head gasket blew on my bike. He said he hopes the water didnt get into the crankshaft because if it did I would have to replace the crank bearing and rod. Does this make sense? Do you think if I just replace the head gasket my bike will be good to go? and the head gasket is the gasket in that spot where the spark plug screws in right?

 

[HubertGarfunkleIII]

ok so today I tried fixing my bike, the spark plug works put on a brand new one and theres compression in the piston. I didnt take off the whole cylinder just the cylinder cap or whatever its called where the spark plug screws in. It seems fine, I just need to replace the gaskets there I guess. I also drained all the coolant. I cant take the whole cylinder off because I dont have a tool to get to this bolt or something man. Now im just ganna pay some one to fix it.

:ohmy:

 

[TimberPig]

You won't need a new top end for a head gasket leak, unless it has been damaged as a result. Your mechanic is right however, that there is a good chance you need a new crank and main bearings now however, as it has now been sitting with coolant in the crankcase for a while (there is little to no chance that coolant didn't make it into the case), and the bearings will all have nice rust pits all over them. Try to run it, and you may get lucky and they aren't damaged, but in almost all cases like yours, the bearings are damaged, and the engine will blow, causing even more collateral damage, than the original bottom end rebuild cost.

You could have saved the bottom end by ripping off the top end promptly (the day this happened), draining the coolant out of the crank, and oiling it up heavily with 2 stroke oil to prevent rust.

 

[killerkx]

do what you have to do, but taking it to a shop will cost way more than a couple tools would cost to di it yourself...

 

[Blackcat]

Well when you take it to the shop at least you'll know what you need. Bearings and headgaskets.

 

[rmc_olderthandirt]

okay, let's get a couple of terms straight here:

The cylinder head is the top "cap" of the cylinder and is where the spark plug is. On a two stroke that's all there is, on a four stroke the head will also have the valves, cams and associated valve train mechanics.

Down underneath the cylinder is the crankcase, which has the crank and connecting rod (oftened referred to as just the "rod"). The crank wil have seals where it extends through the case on each side. There will also be two bearings for the crank, often referred to as the "main" bearings. There will be another bearing for where the connecting rod attaches to the crank, often referred to as the journal bearing. A third bearing will be found up where the rod connects to the piston, at the "wrist pin".

Hubert said that there was about 5 hours on a new top end. This suggests to me that the head was either not torqued (tightened) down properly or it was warpped from the previous failure.

When I ride I load up all the camping gear and drive 6 hours to my favorite spot so I want to make sure my toys are in good working order before I go. In this situation I wouldn't take any chances, I would take the cylinder head to a shop and have them check it to make sure it was flat. If you ride next to home and missing an opportunity to ride basically means more time to mow the lawn then I would just buy a new head gasket and make sure it was torqued down properly and see if it was okay.

As for the water in the crankcase ruining the bearings: I don't think so. I have had a bunch of motors, both two stroke and four stroke that have been completely submerged in water. I have hauled them out, drained the water, dried everything out and got them running again without any bearing issues. I sure wouldn't start a complete bottom end rebuild just because a little water got in there.

If you have the cylinder head off then you should at least inspect the cylinder and make sure there are no signs of siezure. It is possible that you basically siezed it again which made it overheat and that is what blew the head gasket. With only 5 hours on the top end rebuild you should be able to clearly see the faint crosshatch boring pattern onthe cylinder walls. If you see any vertical marks at all then you will need to pull the sylinder and redo the top end.

Just out of curiosity, who did the top end last time?

Rod

 

[HubertGarfunkleIII]

the guy I bought the bike from I guess. I took the crankcase off. Thats the case right by the chain and front sprocket right. next to the gear shift lever? So I took that off and there was some rust in there. but when I kicked the bike it would spin fine. could I just try and sand the rust off or something or just leave it? I have also heard stories about ppl getting thier bikes totally submerged in water and the bike starting just fine later after doing what you said. when I took the cylinder head off I would kick the bike and all kinds of coolant would squirt out from the piston. only when I would give it a good kick. So I did this over and over in an attempt to get alll the stuff out. I want to go cheapest route to fix the bike as I dont have alot of money. I do not want to get a new top or bottom end or cranks and rods. Just get the damn thing running again. Than maybe just get rid of it and sell it.

 

[TimberPig]

As for the water in the crankcase ruining the bearings: I don't think so. I have had a bunch of motors, both two stroke and four stroke that have been completely submerged in water. I have hauled them out, drained the water, dried everything out and got them running again without any bearing issues. I sure wouldn't start a complete bottom end rebuild just because a little water got in there.

Have you ever left it sitting in there for a couple weeks before draining it and getting it running again? I'm betting not. Water alone hitting the bearings doesn't cause the rust damage, water sitting in there long enough for rust to form does. If he had got it cleaned out and running promptly, he could have saved it. By now, the bottom end is done from what he has described.

 

[TimberPig]

the guy I bought the bike from I guess. I took the crankcase off. Thats the case right by the chain and front sprocket right. next to the gear shift lever? So I took that off and there was some rust in there. but when I kicked the bike it would spin fine. could I just try and sand the rust off or something or just leave it? I have also heard stories about ppl getting thier bikes totally submerged in water and the bike starting just fine later after doing what you said. when I took the cylinder head off I would kick the bike and all kinds of coolant would squirt out from the piston. only when I would give it a good kick. So I did this over and over in an attempt to get alll the stuff out. I want to go cheapest route to fix the bike as I dont have alot of money. I do not want to get a new top or bottom end or cranks and rods. Just get the damn thing running again. Than maybe just get rid of it and sell it.

The crankcase is the centercases, where the crank is housed, and where fuel air mix passes through prior to entering the cylinder. You pulled the side case from the sounds of it, which while rusted bearings in there are a bad sign, is not what we are talking about when we talk about the crankcase.

The cheapest (note, not the best) route to get it running, is fix any warped gasket surfaces, and put a complete gasket kit into the engine. Rust pitted rod and main bearings however, will likely lead to a short life after reassembly.

The best way to fix it, is to completely tear it down, and inspect all parts, and replace any that appear suspect, which likely includes the crank (with the rod, it's part of the crankshaft) and the main bearings. Then completely reassemble with new gaskets and seals, following the correct procedure and torque specs.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but no matter what your financial situation is, you can't undo the damage that has occurred, without spending money to replace damaged parts. Without a proper rebuild, unless you get very lucky and somehow the crank does not decide to throw a rod or wad up a main bearing, the bike is a parts or rebuilder as is, or with the cheap out rebuild of failing to correctly repair the bottom end of the engine. Fixing it without replacing the parts and then trying to sell it without divulging the history is also lying and cheating the person you intend to sell your bike to.

 

[Blackcat]

Fixing it without replacing the parts and then trying to sell it without divulging the history is also lying and cheating the person you intend to sell your bike to.

I agree on that one. I hate people like that.

 

[HubertGarfunkleIII]

yeah same here. I just barely got this bike. the guy I bought it off of said it had a new top end and a fmf pipe and silencer. turns out the silencer is a stock silencer he put a fmf sticker on and who knows what else. He lied to me and ripped me off. I barely rode the bike maybe three times and than this happened.

 

[HubertGarfunkleIII]

ok so I basically need to rebuild the whole engine, how much is this going to cost me to do the repairs do you think? Also once the bike is all fixed, what do you think is a reasonable selling price?