Could This Be More Complicated?

[Chili]

Let me preface this message by saying it's going to be a long post but I would appreciate any help or opinions you all can offer.

For background information my son Troy has been racing since the middle of last season which up here in Canada translates into 5 races last fall and he has 3 race days this season under his belt. Troy is almost 5'5" and weighs 132 lbs geared up. He is currently riding a 1999 KX80 and is currently finishing in the bottom third of his class.

My plan had always been to let him finish out this year on it and pick up a new 04 125 class bike this fall for next season. The wrench in these plans came after I had a long discussion with a local race mechanic who's opinion I respect. The conversation started with me asking about whether he felt I would be better served to have Troy run a season or two on a 2 stroke 125 or if he felt he could make the jump directly from an 80 to a 4 stroke 250. His response was he felt Troy might be beter served running another year in the 85cc class and getting more experience in a class he will have a much better chance of actually competing in for higher finishes. His logic was that the 125 Beginner and 125 Junior Classes are full of guys a heck of alot faster than Troy is capable of running and that Troy may find it very intimidating and thus slow down his progression as a rider. He also brought up the fact that the 125 Beg/Junior classes are some of the most dangerous on the track and the faster you can get a kid out of them and into the Intermediate class the better.

His suggestion was to wait until this fall and take a peek at the YZ125F that Yamaha is supposed to be releasing for use in the 85cc Class and if that doesn't tickle our fancy or doesn't get released on schedule then we can upgrade Troy to a newer 85cc bike.

Any opinions out there? Give him another year on 85's even though he may be 5'7"+ by then? or throw him to the wolves so to speak on a 125? The reason I'm so torn on this decision is I would like to upgrade his ride soon so we were sitting tight until fall for the new 125's but if he is going to stay on an 85cc class bike I may start looking immediately for a new one.

Thanks for any help and thoughts on the issue.

 

[oldguy]

Chili we went thru the same scenario with thekid. He was getting good results (normally running in the top 7 to 10 every week) in the 85cc class. When we got the 125 the origonal intent was to race a final year in the 85cc class for confidence while occasionally entering 125Jr for experience and track time. Problem was once he got on the 125 the 85 sat around unused until race day so we moved him up.
Our 125Jr class right now is one of the fastest classes in that there are 4 A riders who turned 16 after the first of the year so they are still racing 125Jr also. Each week it is a let down to see them there knowing that the rest of the field is racing for 5th but thekid likes the fact that he is riding with the fast guys. He looks at it that this year is a training year and next year he wants to be a dominate rider in the 125Jr class and leave it on top. 125Jr is made up mainly of kids that have been racing for a while and know what they are doing. 125C (beginner) is what I consider the most dangerous class in our area- it is everyone that went out and bought a bike to try racing. Thekid has had his worst crashes and injuries while racing 125C mainly due to other riders doing unpredictable things (braking on jump faces, switching lines while being overtaken, rolling jumps in the center of the track,......). My wife and I feel far more secure with him in the 125Jr class and when he enters a second for track time he goes into 125B. He knows that 125B is for experience and that makes the occasional top 10 in there even better.
We have made the decision that after next year (his final 125Jr by age) he will skip C and go into 125B or 250C.
My feeling for what its worth is let Troy improve his results and confidence in 85cc at least another season then let him play with a 125 and decide which way he is mentally prepared for.

 

[Chili]

Dave I appreciate your reply and thought about Eric while posting this thread. I recall the conversation Eric and Troy had at the Minny Sx about not wanting to touch the 80 once you had the 125.

I guess my biggest concern is that Troy will end up at 5'7" or 5'8" by next season but there does seem to be plenty of kids in the 85 class now that are 5'7"+. 125C or Beginner seems to be the train wreck class in every area.

right now my gut feeling has me leaning towards another year on the 85's unless he can start to produce some strong finishes and improve his skills.

The rules of our local association are supposed to be that anyone that races 85's can't go in the 125 beginner class and should go straight to 125 Jr but it doesn't appear to be enforced and there is plenty of slower 85 riders who end up in the Beginner class.

 

[SpeedyManiac]

It might not hurt to keep him on the 80 for another year. What is Troy's opinion on it? I've noticed that in racing, everything moves down. I race off-road, and while I have been riding for 3 years and can ride pretty much anything, I still only place midpack in the Junior Under (though I have the speed to be a front runner in the class). Racing classes seem to drop people down (if you can ride at a B pace in practice, most race in the C class). Good luck with your decisions.

 

[Chili]

Troy's opinion is that he want's to get a 125 although I suspect the root of that decision is that he would like to get a new bike moreso than he wants a 125.

Another concern I have is that so far Troy is only doing doubles up to about 20-25 feet in length while I watched 125 Beginner the last race and out of the 35 bikes on the line I would estimate only 5 rolled the 45+ foot doubles on this particular track the rest were jumping them with ease.

 

[Ol'89r]

Originally posted by oldguy

My feeling for what its worth is let Troy improve his results and confidence in 85cc at least another season then let him play with a 125 and decide which way he is mentally prepared for. [/B]

Chili.

I agree with oldguy. Around here the kids on the 85's are jumping everything on the track. The 125 class is a very tough class. And at 5'7" a 125 may be a little tall for him.

I have found with my grandson, it is not a good idea to intimidate the kids with bigger, faster bikes until they are fully confident on the bike they are currently riding. I see this at the track all of the time and it usually ends up with getting the kid hurt.

I personally feel that the 250 class is a safer class than the 125's. After one more year on the 85, he may be big enough for a 250.

In this sport, confidence is everything.

Just my humble opinion.

9r

 

[XRpredator]

All I can say is when he jumps up I hope he can get out of the 125B as fast as possible.

I can remember back in the day when there were 50 guys lined up for the 125B class! Talk about first turn carnage!

I say one more year in the 80 class. Let him get some wins under his belt.

 

[nikki]

I'm Troy's size - 5'5" 125-130 lbs. and I personally think the 80 is way too small and it's time to move up to a 125. I have rode both... in fact I had a '99 KX 80 also. A few weeks after I bought it new, I rode a friend's '98 RM 125 and got hooked and got my own '98 RM 125 as soon as I found someone to buy the KX 80. At first, I had difficulty turning the 125 because of the size and laid it down in turns once in a while, but everything else about the 125 made me a better rider (smoother and more power than the 80, much better suspension, a little extra weight under me on the jumps, better ergos, etc.)

I myself was running last in 80 open races on the 80's I raced (YZ and KX). Around here 80 SR and 80 open are scary fast (yes, I was too old for 80 open but they let me race it for lack of a better class to race). When I first moved to the 125, I was able to mis it up in the back half in 125C or mid-pack in 125D. But the most promising part is that I became a much better rider once I got on the 125. I started getting holeshots, I started doing more jumps, I started riding more agressive, it was a great move.

125C is crazy if there is a big class. Anything over 15 bikes and you're in for some fun. Heck, 125C is what took away 3 months of my year this season (I was safe in the lead until I got clipped in the air). But the simple fact is 125 JR and 125B are very fast and 125C is bigger and a little more dangerous. Does your area ever have a 125D?

 

[yzguy15]

Well, it's really a hard thing to say. Every kid is different. I spent a year on a 98 CR80 and then moved to a 97 YZ 250. By the time I was 15 I started racing hare scrambles and cross country in the 250C (easily one of the fastest classes) class and routinely finishing in the bottom fourth. Now I'm 17 and getting top tens. I know for me it was a good experience to go out and be almost dead last every race. However, for some, that might be awful. Also, I don't know much about motocross. I tend to lean more towards Nikki's point of view. Move him up to the 125. Why does he have to race the 125 immediately? Could he not practice on the 125 for the first half of the season, get used to the bike, and then see how things go in the last half? After I got my 250 we just rode for about a year or year and a half before I ever raced it.

 

[Chili]

Nikki - Our 125 classes break down as follows:

125 Pro
125 Intermediate
125 Junior
125 Beginner

The 125 Beginner class is generally a full gate of 40 and sometimes even has qualifying to get the field down to 40 for the main. My thoughts originally are that he will be too big for the 80 next year as he already looks really gangly on it and that is with the renthal mini high bars to help out with the ergos a bit.

yzguy15 - finishing dead last or near dead last I don't think would bother Troy as long as he felt he was getting better week to week. I had thought about getting the 125 and keeping his 80 around so he could practice on the 125 at times and still race the 80 but I envision a scenario oldguy presented where the 80 sits collecting dust until race day. I don't think there is anyway that I could convince him to practice for 1/2 a season and not race to get used to the 125, racing is in his blood and he is hooked bad!

I appreciate the responses from everyone one and am always interested in more advice/opinions on the subject. Am I making progress with the decision? Well for about 8 hours today I had decided that another year of 80cc racing was in order and for the other 8 hours I thought about it the 125 won the argument :laugh:

I think at this stage I may just let him ride around on my old 125 some come the middle of the season and see how he handles that, if it goes well I will see about borrowing a current 125 or 250F and let him run some laps on one of those and then make a decision from there.

 

[nikki]

Originally posted by Chili
I will see about borrowing a current 125 or 250F and let him run some laps on one of those and then make a decision from there.

Chili - I think you just nailed the solution right there - some day at practice on a track that he is familiar with... have him take a few bikes for some laps. It's the best and only way to know what he will like and do well with. That was all it took for me to make the switch from an 80 to a 125 and again from a 125 to a 250F. At one point, after turning several laps on a 100 - I was ready to move down to a 100 a few years back but am glad I stuck with the big bikes. Testing it out is the best way to know. Bikes are too expensive just to guess and get something you won't be happy with.

 

[oldguy]

If he makes it until Dirtweek He will get a chance to ride so many different bikes that the decison will be clear as mud.

 

[Chili]

Dirtweek was part of my thoughts in that if he was going to move up to a 125 what better time than to have one with us at dirtweek so that he had 5-6 days of consecutive riding to start to adjust to the bike. With our climate here and the short season losing time to the school year etc etc the chance to ride 5 or more days in a row is pretty much unheard of for us here.

Dirtweek for us is pretty much going to equal about two to three normal weeks of riding opportunities for Troy