Do all 2 strokes somewhat splooge?

[1998RM250]

Hey guys I've been having some jetting issues on my RM 250,
and I finally got it running much better today... My question is,
do all 2 strokes splooge somewhat? I don't remember my other RM 250 getting so much oil residue on the rear fender as this one. It's not burning any case oil either, or fouling out plugs... Just a PITA to keep cleanin the splooge off the yellow plastics, and sometimes it stains. This weekend I'm gonna do a plug chop and see how it looks, but i was just wondering how bad everyone elses splooges (yamalube 32:1). Oh also
for some reason, one minute the bike idles fine and sometimes it won't. I dont get it, any idea what might cause that?

 

[Brandon H.]

Spooge 101
http://forums.dirtrider.com/70/7169620/general-discussion/spooge-101/index.html

 

[1998RM250]

wow great info, thanks I learned alot! Raising the clip a notch did help with the bogging, but only a little with the splooge. I also just repacked the silencer too, and I figured that would help but no.

 

[Brandon H.]

LOL to be honest I didn't know any of that info either, I just did a quick search and found it. So we both learned a lot from that lol. Hopefully someone will chime in soon to answer your question.

 

[1998RM250]

i ask alot of questions, these guys are probably tired of me already haha... just tryin to learn though!

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

Its got to be in proper mechanical shape. If its been modded improperly, you will never get it to run/jet correctly. It will work to some degree. Some except that degree, some do not. Every part on every bike wears out, eventually. Even though you may not race to Stewart's level, you bought a bike built to pretty close to the same maintenance schedules. And for every part left too long, there are consequences. Some can land you in the hospital. The spooge link was some good stuff. There was a guy who worked for Mercury Marine a few years back on this site. He told the same tale about researching the oil ratio myth. Same result, awesome. Want to mod engines, look up Professor Blair, Eric Gorr, and our favorite Rich Rohrich. Solid, documented and proven. Get what books you can from all 3, Rich has some great stuff in here on fuels and reading sparkplugs/jetting. Its all in the technical archives. Stick around till the next wave of what ratio/spooge people come by. Vintage Bob

 

[Rich Rohrich]

LOL to be honest I didn't know any of that info either, I just did a quick search and found it.

A quick search on DRN would have pointed you to the origin of a lot of that info right here on DRN about 7 years ago. ( at least the stuff that was accurate) ;)

http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=72151&page=1&pp=10

http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=79461&page=1&pp=10

http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=51674

There is plenty more if you poke around.

Keep in mind while Okie is working on fixing the built in SEARCH function on DRN you can still use Google to search specifically on DRN only.

Try plugging this in the Google search box "spooge" "18:1" "ratio" site:dirtrider.net

To search on something else just change what is in the quotes :
""xylene" site:dirtrider.net

This would find all the threads that discuss the chemical xylene that is used in some octane boosters.

It's pretty easy once you see how it's done. :cool:

 

[2strokerfun]

i ask alot of questions, these guys are probably tired of me already haha... just tryin to learn though!

Much better to ask questions in an effort to learn than to try and answer questions you don't know the answer to !!

Now after reading the excellent spooge link, MY question (and I may be--OK, I am --stupid) is: what are crank "wheels?" Is that the webs? Thanks

 

[mj4trax]

Nice thread. I like the "spooge 101" link for sure.

I wonder how much of the "spooge" is due to the flash point on the oil. I've noticed varying amounts of spooge without changing oil mixture ratio's or jetting. Right now I'm running Maxima K2 and it creates a lot of spooge. Has anybody else experimented with this??

Personally, a little spooge seems like a good thing to me. .. means the oils aren't breaking down completely on the top side of the piston, allowing them to lubricate the cylinder wall more efficiently. ... also a definite sign that the cylinder is not running too hot.

 

[jsantapau]

Nice thread. I like the "spooge 101" link for sure.

I wonder how much of the "spooge" is due to the flash point on the oil. I've noticed varying amounts of spooge without changing oil mixture ratio's or jetting. Right now I'm running Maxima K2 and it creates a lot of spooge. Has anybody else experimented with this??

.

If you read carefully the posts of the threads that Rich Rohrich posted I beleive you would find a suitable answer.

"Some oils really interfere with combustion and some don't . When you can see a big change in jetting from playing with oil ratios it's a pretty good sign that the oil is interfering with normal combustion."-Rich Rohrich
Although I am sure there are plenty of other things in the makeup of the oil that can play with the flame front I would beleive flash point of the oil and gas you choose would affect it


"Personally, a little spooge seems like a good thing to me. .. means the oils aren't breaking down completely on the top side of the piston, allowing them to lubricate the cylinder wall more efficiently. ... also a definite sign that the cylinder is not running too hot"

well here is my take of having a little knowledge being a dangerous thing, and also going to a far extreme to prove a point.. if you are running a gasoline that is not being completly burned you will have some spooge even if you do not have enough oil. a strange example might be a 125 running a lousy pump gas that was poured out of a diesel container being mixed at 100/1 that is jetted too rich. the make up of the fuel not being able to burn completey, being to rich multiplying the problem wil give you spooge but will the 100/1 ratio protect the internals?

also the way I envision things would be that there are no redeeming qualities of lubrication at the area and time of combustion. the piston is traveling away with the piston skirt and ring scraping the oil off the cylinder wall below the fact and anything above is after the fact, now after exhaust blowdown and the transfers open you will have a fresh charge setting on top for the compression cycle. That is magic ticket that tuners are looking for enough oil to do the job but not too much to affect combustion , jetted lean enough to be crisp but not too lean to sieze. which realistically if you are looking for that type of competetive edge from a 125 or 250 you probably should be on a 250f or 450f.

 

[Rich Rohrich]

I wonder how much of the "spooge" is due to the flash point on the oil.

An oil or a fuel's flash point has no direct impact on spooge. ;)

That subject was discussed at length here : http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=34527&page=1&pp=10

 

[mj4trax]

Okay. ... so maybe not the "flash point". .. maybe the "burn point" or some other aspect/characteristic of the oil. I've definitely seen that the amount of spooge generated differs greatly with only the oil changing.

Other thing I've noticed in my experience is that I don't ever get spooge from my TRX250R quad. . . I do run a bit higher than stock compression, but I use the same fuel in the quad as the bike and have never seen the spooge until I bought the bike. . .. and it's certainly not because I've never ran my quad rich, that's for sure!!

I wonder if any of that is due to the cylinder design on the quad. .. still uses the steel sleeve. .. so there is a step change in the efficiency of the heat dissipation.

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

A guy really needs to watch how he gathers and draws assumptions. Especially against a quad! Its the condition of the motor, and related parts, from the clean air filter to the silencer packing. Thats a big gray area for a lot of people. There is likely something wrong. Who wants to admit, they may have made a mistake on a rebuild? The guy who bored it, rebuilt the crank? Who wants to admit they do not keep up with replacing parts on time, I know I am no Stewart, so the part can last a little longer? Spooge: ovaled bore/bad compression seal/worn top end/bad bottom end. The little float valve in the carb, does not always puke onto the ground showing its bad, but, guess what, is the main culprit once you get passed a good bore! It does have a yearly life, but when something screwy is going on? The ignition, what a great gray area, and damn expensive parts swapping. The owners manual and a multi tester can rule it out, a long with the dreaded looking at the plug. World's toughest job on a 2 stroke? Almost no one does it? You would think everyone has a 4 stroke, gotta take half the bike apart to get to it? WTF! Premium fuel, oem pre mix, ALL parts in good shape, properly jetted= NO SPOOGE! I have seen bikes babied to exceed wayyy past rebuild time, spooge everywhere, they keep on riding, to some extent. Can I take your bike for a ride, and it seizes in half a lap. Cools off, and the owner is right back out there. Wonder where mis-information starts? Get the manual, get the tools, and start a proper maintenance schedule for your bike. Vintage Bob

 

[mj4trax]

I've been around two stoke quads for 18 years and never seen this issue. Last year, myself, both my brothers and our friend all bought bikes (wanted to try something new) and all 4 are spooging considerably. .. we've found that we can turn the spooging on or off depending on what brand of oil we premix with though. .. I was just looking to see if anybody else has worked through similar issues. . . maybe recommend a specific oil or something. .. I like to run 100% synthetic oils, but I've only been able to get the spooging to stop with non-synthetic oils. I was thinking of trying the Motul 800 next. .. any thoughts on that oil?

Thanks for the help guys. ... I do appreciate it. ... but I think I'm done getting beat up over this thread. .. was just asking a few questions looking for straight forward answers and not some reaming on how a guy you do not know obviously is a lousy newbie mechanic and has torn to crap junk.

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

Its probably not the oil. Its more than likely a mechanical or jetting issue. By the way, what kind of bike? Vintage Bob

 

[mj4trax]

My bike is a '03 RM250. . .. brother bought a '02 RM250 (mint condition. .. less than 10 hrs on it). . . other brother bought a '89 RMX250 and our friend bought an '01 CR250.

Three of the four of us own TRX250 quads for the past decade or so. . . the spooge is new to every one of us.

 

[1998RM250]

how do your plugs look after a ride on a fresh plug? From what i've learned in the past few days about proper jetting, and reading plugs I can say all of my bikes must have been running rich. Either way they still seemed to run right though, so I don't understand. After a ride today on a fresh plug and experimenting with moving the needle clip up a notch it ran better with less splooge, but the plug was still a little wet. I also can't figure out why i'm getting some "blowby" around the spark plug on top when its nice and snug in the cylinder head? Getting an oily ring around the plug...

 

[SS109]

I was having a real bad spooge problem on my KDX when I bought it. It also smoked like crazy and was getting residue (spooge) all over my fender and silencer. It was so bad it would drip down onto my rear rotor if I didn't wipe the end of the silencer when I parked it.

To fix the spooge problem I raised the clip on the needle one notch and switched from 40:1 (what the previous owner said he set it up for :think: ) back to the factory 32:1. Now, it hardly smokes at all and the bike pulls way harder than before.

The only reason I'm sharing my experience is that it just further proves that more oil doesn't equate to more splooge. The real problem was jetting, not excess oil.

 

[_JOE_]

My bike is a '03 RM250. . .. brother bought a '02 RM250 (mint condition. .. less than 10 hrs on it). . . other brother bought a '89 RMX250 and our friend bought an '01 CR250.

Three of the four of us own TRX250 quads for the past decade or so. . . the spooge is new to every one of us.

The 02/03 RM250 can be very picky about fuel and jetting. I had an 02 that was tough to get jetted right. I think it might have something to do with the porting as these bikes have a pretty hard hitting mid-top tune. I would bet some good 2-stroke race fuel, a quality premix and an afternoon of jetting would clear it right up, as long as the engine passes a leak down test.



I'll try not to hold that quad against you. Maybe you just haven't "realized" yet? :nener:

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

This started as RM's thread, and 4trax hacked in. But, I do not mind, I have hacked enough threads! And its the internet, how can you beat someone? Both are the dreaded RM250. It is a race bike, and neither is using it for that. Does the bike get warmed up, and cleared out? Read this jetting link, and tell me where your air screw is adjusted to? And for personal knowledge, how much preload do you have the exhaust valve set to? Goto post #17: http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=172481&highlight=spankys+jetting+guide , Vintage Bob

 

[mj4trax]

I'll try not to hold that quad against you. Maybe you just haven't "realized" yet? :nener:

realized exactly what?

I've "realized" how much less I hurt after riding the bike instead of the quad :ride:

My member intro thread (explains a bit of the quad thing)

http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?p=1380575#post1380575

 

[mj4trax]

how do your plugs look after a ride on a fresh plug? From what i've learned in the past few days about proper jetting, and reading plugs I can say all of my bikes must have been running rich. Either way they still seemed to run right though, so I don't understand. After a ride today on a fresh plug and experimenting with moving the needle clip up a notch it ran better with less splooge, but the plug was still a little wet. I also can't figure out why i'm getting some "blowby" around the spark plug on top when its nice and snug in the cylinder head? Getting an oily ring around the plug...

I always aim for my jetting to err on the rich side. On the TRX, if it get just a little too rich, it starts fouling plugs like crazy (20+ year old ignition system design) but it won't spooge at all. On the RM, if it's rich, it still runs extremely crisp and I have yet to foul a single plug. . .. but there's black nasty crap and smoke everywhere.

The oily ring around the plug. .. I've seen that before. .. and it's dependant upon the actual head. .. some motors have done that, others. . . not at all. I've typically just lived with it as long as everything else is working well, as the fix would be replacing the head.

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

100 heads will not fix spooge. Unless its been improperly modded. The spooge is blowing out the spark plug because its not sealed. Wrong torque or damaged threads would be the safe bet? On an MX race bike, if its blowing spooge, it is a safe bet 1 of 2 things is going on. 1, You are not riding it correctly? Trying to trail ride a stock MX race bike can load the bike up and spooge. 2, Something between the carb and silencer needs replacing. It will run A LOT better fixed properly. Vintage Bob

 

[mj4trax]

100 heads will not fix spooge. Unless its been improperly modded. The spooge is blowing out the spark plug because its not sealed. Wrong torque or damaged threads would be the safe bet? On an MX race bike, if its blowing spooge, it is a safe bet 1 of 2 things is going on. 1, You are not riding it correctly? Trying to trail ride a stock MX race bike can load the bike up and spooge. 2, Something between the carb and silencer needs replacing. It will run A LOT better fixed properly. Vintage Bob

I think #1 seems like my most likely cause for spooge. .. it does seem to get a bit better when the trails open up and I can let the bike breathe more. ..

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

How much tension do you have on the exhaust valve preload springs? Vintage Bob