EFI Systems.. ?
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Deadohiosky39
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- Jul 12, 2008
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Does someone sell a kit for your bike or how are you planning on doing this? I don't think its as easy as you think. EFI=Electronic Fuel Injection which means a computer and an injector take the place of your carb. Different sensors (which your bike doesn't come with) tell the computer how much fuel to spray into your cyclinder. At least thats the jest of it.
rmc_olderthandirt
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- Apr 18, 2006
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I didn't read his post as if he wanted to upgrade his bike as much as ask people who had one how it was working out.
I can see how EFI would work great on a bike that had a battery. It is the bikes that don't have a battery that confuse me. EFI generally requires a fairly high pressure fuel pump, return lines to the tank, etc. I can see how the computer can come alive in milliseconds before the fuel valve needs to open but I figured out how it builds fuel pressure.
The bikes run so I am sure they figured something out. I am just wondering what sort of problems they might have.
Rod
I can see how EFI would work great on a bike that had a battery. It is the bikes that don't have a battery that confuse me. EFI generally requires a fairly high pressure fuel pump, return lines to the tank, etc. I can see how the computer can come alive in milliseconds before the fuel valve needs to open but I figured out how it builds fuel pressure.
The bikes run so I am sure they figured something out. I am just wondering what sort of problems they might have.
Rod
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rmc_olderthandirt said:
Correct. I'm not planning on converting.. lol. I might as well buy another bike with how much that would cost. I'm just wondering what the pros/cons are, since it seems that most manufacturers are turning to this. Also, with the tuning tool, you can set everything, similar to a car. You can change the knock, the retard, if it's running too rich or too lean, better maps for hard pack surfaces, better maps for soft pack, and you can dim the power down on everything to learn and practice on.
Gives the rider more control of what they're riding. I'm just curious as to what negative aspects there are. For one, I'm sure everything costs a lottttt more if something were to break.
SpeedyManiac
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I was at the Romaniacs a couple weeks ago where my rider was riding the 09 Husaberg FE450, with fuel injection. Besides having perfect jetting (err, fuel mixtures, there aren't any jets) there are a lot of other benefits. The bergs have a sensor in them so if it's leaned over to 70° or more for more than 3 seconds, the bike shuts off and the fuel pump stops. I was skeptical of this, but it's great. As most people know, starting a hot thumper that's either been crashed or stalled is not fun at the best of times. With EFI, it's a non-issue. The berg has electric (only, no kick-start) and the electric starter doesn't even get a work out as the bike starts immediately, all the time. When it's running, it's great. Automatically adjusts for altitude, temperature, etc. No stumbles off idle when you whack the throttle open, just pure power.
As you can tell, I'm a big fan of EFI. The only downfall is if you get a short in the system when out riding or something else goes wrong with the electronics (or the fuel pump).
Now, if someone would just make an EFI two-stroke, life would be perfect.
As you can tell, I'm a big fan of EFI. The only downfall is if you get a short in the system when out riding or something else goes wrong with the electronics (or the fuel pump).
Now, if someone would just make an EFI two-stroke, life would be perfect.
rmc_olderthandirt
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SpeedyManiac said:
When I end up laying my bike down (which I do with embarrassing frequency) I usually hop back up and dive for the clutch and throttle so I can keep the bike running. I am thankful my bike will run laying on its side.
Of course, if I had electric start I probably wouldn't care.
I understand how the bikes with batteries would handle everything but they are putting EFI on bikes without batteries as well. It seems like you would need to kick until you built up fuel pressure.
Rod
Deadohiosky39
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CROSS said:
And I'm an idiot :bang: :bang:
Sorry for the confusion. I've just read a lot of dumb questions on here lately and must have immediately assumed this was another one.
I think the EFI is a pretty sweet idea all the way around and I'm glad they've started putting it on dirt bikes. No more jetting!!!
Though as they mentioned above it would be a pain if you got a short some where out on the trail. It's one of those things where, when it works its great, when it doesn't it sucks. With a carb if a jet gets clogged a little it'll probably still run, just poorly. But sometimes poorly is enough to get you back to the truck.
SpeedyManiac
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rmc_olderthandirt said:
I was worried about that too, but it didn't seem to affect my rider at the Romaniacs. And trust me, that bike was laid over A LOT.
My understanding for batteryless EFI is they hook up a capacitor to the kick starter that can hold enough of a charge to get the system going. I think that's how it works.
SpeedyManiac
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CROSS said:
You sure about that? For offroad racing the two-stroke is still alive and well. Just because MXers don't use them and a few Japanese brands stopped producing them doesn't mean the two-stroke is dead. Far from it.
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nope, it's dead. accept it. nothing to see here. move along.SpeedyManiac said:
XRpredator said:
The other day I heard "the two-stroke is dead and we're just waiting for them to come claim the body" :whoa:
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so you're gonna claim the body, eh? ;)OldTimer said:
DWreck
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My first car had a carburator and I know that there hasn't been a single time that I thought boy I wish my truck wasn't fuel injected but I am a little weary of the long term reliability and cost of maintenance. (What are your chances of getting back to the truck after submerging one in a creek 50 miles into an enduro?)
I heavn't read up on any of them in depth but it sounds like there are some differences in the way they are designed. It will be enteresting to see how they stack up against each other.
I heavn't read up on any of them in depth but it sounds like there are some differences in the way they are designed. It will be enteresting to see how they stack up against each other.
rmc_olderthandirt
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DWreck (What are your chances of getting back to the truck after submerging one in a creek 50 miles into an enduro?) [/QUOTE said:
I would think it would only take a little bit of rpm for the electrical system to come alive when starting. I would'nt think the pump would need to run at full power to provide enough fuel to fire the engine a few times so it can energize the pump. As long as there's an injector pulse and even minimal fuel delivery the engine should come alive no problem.
For you guys with EFI experience, is there still a choke or some sort of method of richening the mix at cold start-up? It would seem this would be the most difficult for the system to do, as it needs a richer mix even before the computer knows enough to compensate for it.
For you guys with EFI experience, is there still a choke or some sort of method of richening the mix at cold start-up? It would seem this would be the most difficult for the system to do, as it needs a richer mix even before the computer knows enough to compensate for it.
It depends on the engine, but systems like the Keihn PGM-Fi on the Montesa/Honda 250 four-stroke trials engine sense rpm (or lack of), throttle position and temperature to determine starting enrichment
Here's a basic diagram from Honda on their small engine efi (scooters and stuff)
Here's the schematic from the EFI Montesa 4rt 250. I'm pretty sure this is much closer to what we'll see on the CRF450.
Here's a basic diagram from Honda on their small engine efi (scooters and stuff)
Here's the schematic from the EFI Montesa 4rt 250. I'm pretty sure this is much closer to what we'll see on the CRF450.
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SpeedyManiac
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The 09 Berg doesn't have a choke on it - the EFI system automatically figures it out. EFI is GREAT and I wish someone would put it on a two-stroke. Though the new bergs almost handle like a two-stroke, minus the linkless rear suspension.
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