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HajiWasAPunk

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You don't. Or you shouldn't. Other's will disagree, but the best go into the corner lean the bike early and get on the gas early so that at most you just have to tap the clutch once.
 

kawicam250

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HajiWasAPunk said:
You don't. Or you shouldn't. Other's will disagree, but the best go into the corner lean the bike early and get on the gas early so that at most you just have to tap the clutch once.


did you notice that youre on a CRF250R and he's on a CR85R? :coocoo: on my bros.85, when i come into a turn/berm, i will usually gear down and gas it through the rest of the turn. it really all depends on what bike your on, how wet the riding area is, how wide or how tall the turn/berm is, etc. sometimes, if im riding very hard, i'll lightly tap(feather) the clutch when i slow down and release very quickly to get the most out of the turn. like i said earlier, it all depends.
 

SpeedyManiac

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All you do is pull in the clutch enough to take part of the load off the engine. You'll hear an increase in RPM, but it shouldn't go too much or you pulled the clutch in too far.
 

HajiWasAPunk

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kawicam250 said:
did you notice that youre on a CRF250R and he's on a CR85R? :coocoo:
I absolutely noticed that. You probably haven't seen my other posts on this topic a couple of days ago, but I first rode a CR125 and my son still rides a CR85. The biggest difference that I've found between the 4-stroke and 2-stroke is that I can go through the turns at a higher gear.

kawicam250 said:
sometimes, if im riding very hard, i'll lightly tap(feather) the clutch when i slow down and release very quickly to get the most out of the turn. like i said earlier, it all depends.

Lightly tapping the clutch IS NOT the same as Feathering the clutch. Feathering is a slow release similar to what you would do at a start. Lightly tapping out of a turn is great, feathering through the turn is not.
 

AndyO

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Don't know if your referring to my response a couple days ago to a guy wanting to know if he should use the clutch through the turn. I said 90% of the time I feather the clutch through the turn. I should have said: I "tap" the clutch. Didn't mean to ruffle your "feathers". :)
 

HajiWasAPunk

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AndyO said:
Don't know if your referring to my response a couple days ago to a guy wanting to know if he should use the clutch through the turn. I said 90% of the time I feather the clutch through the turn. I should have said: I "tap" the clutch. Didn't mean to ruffle your "feathers". :)

lol, no I'm not ruffled at all. I was referring to that guy above who asked if I noticed the other guy was on a 2-stroke while I ride a 4-stroke, then went on to give essentially the same advice!
 

High Lord Gomer

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A common mistake is to go in and out too far with the clutch when trying to "feather" it, resulting in wildly oscillating RPMs.

On a smaller 2 stroke, you pin the throttle and slip the clutch to keep the RPMs up where the power is. I rarely have to do that on my 450, but I still need to do it on my 1000cc street bike with a tall 1st gear.
 

HajiWasAPunk

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Okie said:
So we are stuck on the phrases "Feather the clutch" and "tap the clutch" ? Frankly, I've never heard Tap the clutch before. The end result is the same, control the power and keep the RPMs in the meat.

I hadn't either Okie. And this is how it was explained to me, again by riding instructors.

Some riders (myself included) want to feather the clutch through and out of the turn (especially on the 2-strokes) and this is not desirable. Ideally you'll go into the turn with enough momentum to match the gear your in and never have to touch it, but IF you do, they suggested just a tap of the clutch, (feathering apparently implies riding the clutch).

Maybe it's just them, my experience is limited, but the 3 guys I've worked with don't want to see anyone feather or ride the clutch except during a race start?
 

RM_guy

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I used to feather my clutch but it giggled too much, now I slip it :)
 

HajiWasAPunk

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High Lord Gomer said:
A common mistake is to go in and out too far with the clutch when trying to "feather" it, resulting in wildly oscillating RPMs.

That's exactly the point the guys teaching us were making. Proper gear selection and keeping momentum up keeps the rpms up in a more smooth manner than trying to find the sweet spot on the clutch.
 

Chili

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Part of the idea behind feathering a clutch coming out of a turn is to keep putting traction to the ground versus blasting the throttle and tapping the clutch and having the back wheel break loose. The skill is finding that fineline between maximum traction and forward momentum and or slowing yourself down uneccessarily and destroying your clutch.
 

HajiWasAPunk

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Chili said:
Part of the idea behind feathering a clutch coming out of a turn is to keep putting traction to the ground versus blasting the throttle and tapping the clutch and having the back wheel break loose. The skill is finding that fineline between maximum traction and forward momentum and or slowing yourself down uneccessarily and destroying your clutch.

Keep in mind that I've only been riding MX for about a year and am only attempting to rehash what's been told to me countless times by the 3 groups of people in the area that hold MXriding class. With that disclaimer in mind:

They advocate rolling the gas on earlier in the turn to avoid having to just pin it at the end. I used to ride into the turns hard (for me) and sort of free wheel to the exit and get on the clutch and gas there. What I've tried to change is braking hard into the turn and then getting on the gas at the entrace of the turn.

Okie, I'm not sure anyone could teach RC anything! Are you saying he does something different than what's been described here?
 

Chili

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It's a fine line Haji, the difference being rolling on the throttle of your 250F is way more effective than it is on an 85 or 125. Usually those little 2 strokes the throttle is left wide open and the amount of power being put to the ground is controlled by the clutch. Watch most any really fast kid on an 85 and they rarely shut the throttle off so there is nothing to roll on.
 

HajiWasAPunk

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I hear you. But as I said previously, most of this is instruction they gave when I was on a CR125 and my son is on an 85. Definitely easier to deal with on a thumper.
But they claim the strategy doesn't change, only the gear you're in?
 
B

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HajiWasAPunk said:
But they claim the strategy doesn't change, only the gear you're in?
Answer or Thor, I fan the hell outta my clutch in the corners. :debil:

Clutches are consumable! Use them, abuse them, replace them! It's America. If you wanna fan your clutch, do it. If not, well, that's ok too!
 

HajiWasAPunk

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Okie said:
The instruction is flawed, sorry bro.

Based on what? I'm all for a friendly debate on the the best way to do anything, including ride :)

But give me something to go on... Have you been taught otherwise? Observed top ranked pros doing otherwise? I would assume difference of opinion exist with the finer points of proper technique but I've had 3 independent instructors tell me to stay off the clutch in the turn and like I said before 2 of them are ex factory riders. It was enough for me....?

I've agreed to disagree on this point before, but imo if you touch the clutch before the exit of a turn you've not done the best you could. phew, all this thinking on a Friday is making me thirsty :)
 

HajiWasAPunk

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Okie said:
No more time to argue with you. Everything that can be said (in this thread and the other) has been. Ride it like you want! :cool:.

The best advice given all day! Ride on baby!
 

ellandoh

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i'll be "fanning" my clutch, especially if theres a set of whoops immediately after the turn and shifting is next to impossible or theres a jump face too close to the exit of a turn and i'm not in the mood for missing a shift on the face, but thats just me :blah: a lowly intermediate art of the dismount student ;)
 

Masterphil

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HajiWasAPunk said:
Are you saying he does something different than what's been described here?
Yes, he is.
HajiWasAPunk said:
Have you been taught otherwise?
Yes, I have.
HajiWasAPunk said:
Observed top ranked pros doing otherwise?
Yes, I have. At the Indy SX in person, and on TV on many occasions. If you watch Terrafirma 7, there is a segment at JBS's house. During part of it, there are cameras pointed at his handlebars from the front, his shifter, and other various locations. When you watch his clutch hand, you can clearly see how he slipps the clutch to keep the RPM's up.
HajiWasAPunk said:
I would assume difference of opinion exist with the finer points of proper technique but I've had 3 independent instructors tell me to stay off the clutch in the turn and like I said before 2 of them are ex factory riders.
The only reason I can think of for them to teach in this manner is because it is easier. There is a much easier learning curve to what they teach.
Real world example:
A friend of mine rides a CR85. I've been helping him learn to go faster. Before I taught him anything, he was oblivious to the clutch and it's ability to make that 85 sing. He would come into corners turn it on and come out with a respectable speed. I tought him to turn it on just as early, but slip the clutch until the bike is on the pipe. When learning this technique, his corner speed dropped down bigtime. He was clearly much slower. After a few weeks of doing every turn like this, it just sorta clicked for him. His corner speed was now much faster than it ever was before he started using the clutch. The only regret I have about teaching him this technique is that it is now harder for me to catch him, and he is putting a beating to that 85.

I guess what I'm trying to say, it works well, but is difficult to learn to do correctly, but the payoffs are big when you get it down. This is almost like the debate about the "What's faster, a 125 or a 250f?". Rolling it on with no clutch is fast, but the same rider can(and will) go faster using the clutch. Clutching it is especially usefull when you've made a shifting mistake or don't want to have to shift before a jump, as others have said.

I've got one for you: How are you going to square off a turn without slipping the clutch on the way out?
 
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