First ride on my friend's GSXR1000

[DieselTech]

Hello all,

I rode my friend's '05 GSXR1000 yesterday, and it was quite an eye-opener for me. First off, my ride is an old-school '96 GSXF750 Katana, which although it is a sportbike (and it's engine is a direct descendant of the original GSXR750 engine), it's not a race-replica, and of course it's a carbureted 3/4 liter that is 9 years older, so I expected it to be a little different. Well, I was quite surprised at the way the bike handled - it felt completely different to me than any other bike I've ever ridden! In turns, it felt like it wanted to "stand up" - on any other bike I've owned, the bike would lay right into the turn when you lean, but not so with this thing.

Seeing as it's my first ride on a bike like this, and I wasn't really expecting this handling trait, I was not very comfortable riding the bike - I felt like I was a newbie! Other than this, the bike was very nice - smooth, great power, great brakes, nice clutch and shifting. Even the ergos weren't that bad (at least for a 10 minute ride). Can anyone explain this handling trait? I'm sure that there's nothing wrong with the bike - maybe these bikes require a different riding style that I'm just not accustomed to? TIA

 

[Rich Rohrich]

What are you doing with the throttle in the turns where it feels like it's standing up? These bikes are fairly sensitive to where in the turn you pick up the throttle.

That's assuming of course he has the sag set correctly front and rear (pretty rare with the street riders I've encountered).

 

[DieselTech]

Rich, I'm riding the bike exactly the way I've ridden any other bike. I approached the turn (they were all left hand by the way, we just went around the block) at a moderate speed - I was decelerating from 60mph to an intersection (no lights or 4 way stop). I initiated my turn while coasting, and maybe halfway thru the turn I began to accelerate.

Now, I was riding the bike the same way I would have ridden mine - and I'm not one of these young kids that rips around on a crotch rocket. Yes, I sometimes hit triple digits out on the backroads or sometimes out on the highway, but I don't ride like an idiot. I can almost guarantee that this bike has not been set up for the owner as far as suspension goes, so I'm not sure how that affects the handling.

I really have never ridden a bike like this before, so I was surprised at just how different it handled. Keep in mind I didn't really notice anything different at speed, only in slower turns. Turns at speed seemed fine - actually the bike felt more responsive than my Katana - but I'd expect that from a repli-racer.

The kid (a friend of my kids - he's 18) that owns this bike told me that he was told by a friend of his that these bikes have to be "counter-steered" - whatever that is supposed to mean. I assumed that he meant pushing on the bars (if you are going straight and you "push" down on one side of the bars, the bike goes in that direction because it leans) - even though that's not really counter-steering in my mind. So, can you help me to understand any of this? I'm thinking maybe it's just me.

Thanks Rich.

 

[Rich Rohrich]

Any bike needs to be "countersteered" to turn. If you want it to turn quickly you need to countersteer more forcefully. The amount of force comes down to geometry, weight bias, bar length, and things like if you are lazily sweeping into a turn or waiting to the last second and quickly snapping it from upright to pegs dragging. Nothing new there really, it's the way you've always ridden, the specific details just change with the situation.

Specific to what you are feeling, it's worth remembering that as soon as you open the throttle the bike will try and stop turning in and "stand up". All bikes do this, but it seems (to me at least) to be more noticeable on race replica bikes.

If you just barely open the throttle while turning in, the bike will sort of level out (stop turning in) and hold it's radius. If you open it more than just a touch (easy to do on a bike with this much power) it will stand up and run wide in the turns. Knowing when and how much to open the throttle is an important step in coming to terms with a big bore race replica. It's much more sensitive to these things than your trusty old 750, with it's more relaxed geometry and weight bias.

If the sag isn't set correctly, then all bets are off. I've seen a ton of bikes roll out of dealerships with the front preload adjusters cranked all the way in (no sag and front end high), and the rear preload adjustment set for too much rear sag. This makes the head angle slack and makes it steer like a chopper, running wide in turns and not holding a radius without a lot of counter steering force.

Having ridden this same bike I can assure you, it will hold a precise line and carve a corner like some roadracing wet dream. Your experience with the GSXR doesn't seem to be the norm, so I would look hard at the bike setup and possibly your riding "style" as being the root cause. My money is on the bike setup being off. :cool:

 

[DieselTech]

Rich,

Thank you so much for your explanation, it makes sense to me. I'd agree that it is a combination of my riding style and possibly the bike setup. I'm a recreational sportbike rider - not a racer, and frankly I wouldn't be able to ride the GSXR for very long before it would make my wrists hurt too much to enjoy riding it (10 minutes was long enough to make them hurt).

Since this was my first experience on a bike of this "caliber", I just wasn't expecting it to handle so much differently (or at least it seemed to me), so I was not confident on the bike. I'm sure with some ride time I'd adapt to it's handling traits just fine.

Can you describe what is meant by "counter steering" on a bike? In my mind, it would mean steering in the opposite direction of that which you wanted to go, akin to turning the wheel into the direction of the slide in a car - like drifting. Thanks again for your help, I really appreciate it.

 

[Rich Rohrich]

Can you describe what is meant by "counter steering" on a bike? In my mind, it would mean steering in the opposite direction of that which you wanted to go, akin to turning the wheel into the direction of the slide in a car - like drifting. Thanks again for your help, I really appreciate it.

I'm referring to the push/pull on the bars that you are likely already using. To turn left, push the left bar and pull on the right bar. The more force that's applied, the faster it turns in.

If you look around on the web you should be able to find an outstanding explanation of the subtle aspects of this process written by Keith Code from the California Superbike Schools.

 

[DieselTech]

I'm referring to the push/pull on the bars that you are likely already using. To turn left, push the left bar and pull on the right bar. The more force that's applied, the faster it turns in.

If you look around on the web you should be able to find an outstanding explanation of the subtle aspects of this process written by Keith Code from the California Superbike Schools.

Ok, thanks. Yes, I already knew about the push/pull on the bars relationship with steering a bike - I just didn't know that it was called counter steering.

 

[racer09]

^^ the gyroscopic effect makes it where counter streeing makes the bike fall into the turns.

From my experience riding 600's and liter bikes is that the 600's handel better but dont have the same power. The liter bikes just arent as nible b/c of weight and power