Gear Change/Shifting Issues

[Wharf Rat]

Ok Kids. This is my first post here. You all have an awesome site and I have learned so much already. I am very mechanically inclined (I build Jeeps), and have been out of the MX/woods bike sport for about 8 years or so now. I used to restore bikes and quads to perfect condition from junkyads when I was younger. Here is the deal:

I bought a 1990 KDX 200E Friday. When I took it out for a test drive, everything worked AWESOME. It is in good shape.
I noticed that the shift lever was a little loose, so I tightened it as soon as I got it home.

I rode for about two hours (probably only 15 miles or so of pretty damn tight woods) on Friday with no problems at all. Then I took it out today and it worked good for about 20 minutes. Then I was on the street heading to some trails near my house. I threw a downshift from what I think was fourth to third , and all of a sudden, the bike now pops into nuetral on the 1->2 shift often and also when in higher gears as well. I go to throw a shift between pretty much any two gears, and all of a sudden I am in nuetral.

I have done a search, the trans oil is full and clean, and the shift lever/arm is tight and I don't think it is bent. I have dropped it very softly a couple of times already in the woods, but not hard at all. Very soft drop and I held it up well so it came down very very slow.

The shifter returns to middle position, so I think the springs are OK.

All od the gears pull fine and clean with no excessive noise, when I can get it in gear that is.

Sometimes I need to hold the shifter down so that it will stay in 1st or second gear just so that I can get home.

What are your suggestions? Should I change gear oil just because I don't know when it was last changed? Any chance that this issue is that simple?

Should I pull the RHS of the cover just to check the shift shaft, etc., or should I break it all the way down and see what else might be broken/bent?

I see marks in the cover where the gear shifter lever had been hitting the LHS engine cover previously, but did NOT have ANY problems shifting until today....sometimes I will be in gear and not touch anything but when I give it gas I am in nuetral. It is that bad.

When it stays in gear it works awesome though. :aj:

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Otherwise everything is coming apart and that sucks on a bike that you have owned for three days...

I am fearing that everything might have to come apart because I have a bent shift fork, messed up drum, etc.

Please help!?!?!?!?!?

Thanks in advance,

Ken

 

[powercart]

Welcome ken, First i would go and change ur tranny oil, i have a 94 kdx200, and i just use plane old castroll 10-30, if it still does it, i have no clue, but i know that my kdx was having shifting problems, with the oil that came in it too, i was in nutral more then anything
GOODLUCK :D

 

[Wharf Rat]

Thanks powercart. I think I will change the oil tomorrow just to check it out. That would be amazing if that is all it is,

Although, I have NEVER had a bike that went this bad this quick just because of oil. I really think it might be a bigger problem.

Anyone else care to comment?

 

[David Trustrum]

Yeah I am sad to say it looks worse than an oil change. I mean, :( nah, re reading it I think you are pulling it right down. 1-2 is always the worst affected gear in any box due to the high torque & large difference. I think you have bent a fork or a shaft has stepped the side with a bearing moving causing problems of the gears not fully engaging, or several other scenarios. Sadly riding it like this will wear the edges off the gear dogs meaning if you fix the initial problem this might also be an issue.

Still don’t give up. Inspect it & see. You have an old bike so it will never be perfect (I have a 91 so I’m not blowing righteousness at ya). Fix it up & they are a great bike.

While you have it apart you can clean up the power valves & maybe chuck some rings at it & you will be pleased with the performance. Read the jetting specs on the kdx site they are so rich std the improvement is huooge.

Good luck & let us know what you find.

 

[jaguar]

I have an '89 and only once in a while (maybe every other day) it slips into a false neutral. Probably just due to things worn out. One of these days I'll tear into it. As far as gear oil I'd definitely recommend anything synthetic that is close to 10-40. Please report what you find when you dig into it. If you don't have or can't get a manual right away then I may be able to scan pages from mine and post them on my web site for you.

 

[Wharf Rat]

Thanks guys. I changed the oil and a 2 minute ride confirms that it is still doing it for sure.

I do have a manual but thanks very much for the offer on the scan.

I will let you know what I find. I am sure I will need some more help once I get it apart.

Just brought it down to the basement and have drained the tranny oil and coolant. Time to tear into things. Here we go....

 

[Wharf Rat]

Figured I would pull the RHS cover off to check things out before I tore the entire thing down. I found something already.

The return spring for the "nuetral set lever" was broken. One of its hooked ends snapped right off.

I found the spring, so at least it hadn't migrated over to the other side of the case yet.

What are the chances that this is casuing all of my problems? It makes sense to me only because I did not really mis-throw a shift or anything like that...the bike just kind of starting not wanting to shift after 1 normal downshift. It's not like anything happened that would bend something bigger in there. I am really hoping that this is my problem.

Any thoughts?

 

[Wharf Rat]

OK, well. I am pretty sure that is what it is since it holds what appears to be the back side of the shift drum in the correct position for each gear.

Parts are ordered. Will let you know if that fixes it. Would be awfully simple if it works but I did eventually find ALL parts of the spring (only 2) and I did not ride it like that more than necessary to diagnose the problem.

Thanks to those who helped.

 

[lpracing77]

Wharf rat, I think you have found it. I have worked on a few KDX's with shift problems before. That spring is a very common item to break. Replace it and give it a ride.

 

[Wharf Rat]

GREAT to hear dude. That is what I think too. Parts will be here Fri. or Mon.

I will let you all know what happens.

 

[Speedy]

I have a 85 KDX 200 and i got a great deal on it cause of this problem!!! It was fixed in mins once i had the spring. Mine, the spring broke that holds the shifter in the nuetral position. So it was kinda just dangleing there. Dude thought it was bad tranny problems and wanted to off it. So i bought it and ive had it ever since with no problems at all.

 

[Wharf Rat]

Nice Speedy. Good call and thanks again to everyone that chimed in.

That was it. 100%. The bike rocks again, with no problems at all. Gave it a couple hours of ride time after fixing it and did not miss a single shift.

 

[JasonWho]

---

 

[Tantrum]

Hey Rat,

I have been having the same problems for some time. So I am going to see if this same spring is broken on my bike. When you took the cover off, was the spring right there in the open, or did you have to dig to get to it. Just wondering.

P.S. How much did Kawi rape you for that part?

B.

 

[Wharf Rat]

I actually didn't even have to pull the full RHS cover off, just pull the clutch cover and pull the clutch, basket, and clutch hub out, etc.

Once the clutch and its hub are gone, the spring is right there. You don't even have to drain the coolant, just the engine oil.

And Kawi charged me about $5 for the part.

 

[gnaden]

Hey Warf rat, good to hear about your quick fix. l am just abou to pull the clutch basket off my 91 KDX250, can you tell me what socket size did you use? and is it a L/H thread ??

 

[Wharf Rat]

Not too sure but I think it was 22MM and it was definitely regular right hand thread.

 

[bully1027]

Originally posted by powercart
and i just use plane old castroll 10-30,

i always but oil from the kawasaki dealer, its more expensive there. can i just go to Parts America and buy 10w 40 synthetic oil instead??? it would be good because the local parts store is 5 min form my home compared to the kawasaki dealer is 35 min .

 

[Boot]

Same spring broke on my '91 a few months ago. Different symptoms, though. Was suddenly stuck in 1st gear after a panic downshift until I worked out how to do finesse the lever with the side of my boot, which let me access higher gears and enjoy the rest of the day somewhat. No false neutrals, just reluctance to change.

Anyway, getting that tight main clutch nut off was my biggest problem, but searching this site gave me the answer: put the bike in gear (I recommend a high gear -- 6th if you can) and shove a piece of steel pipe through the rear sprocket holes. This should bind against the swingarm and prevent the clutch from turning. The nut will then come loose.

I found my spring all in one piece, but one side fractured and limp.

 

[bully1027]

TTT for a reply to my oil Q&A

 

[Mac]

10-30 should work fine just make sure it doesn't say "Energy Conserving" anywhere on the bottle. I use Mobil 1 15-50 with good results.

 

[Fred T]

Originally posted by bully1027


i always but oil from the kawasaki dealer, its more expensive there. can i just go to Parts America and buy 10w 40 synthetic oil instead??? it would be good because the local parts store is 5 min form my home compared to the kawasaki dealer is 35 min .

Bully
Last season I used cheapo Castrol GTX 10W-40 and it worked great. I changed the oil every 100 miles. This season I've switched to Mobil 1 15-50 synthetic and I like it better as the bike shifts smoother and the first to second mis shifts have dropped off significantly. But the $1.50 a qt Castrol workes fine. The key is to change to oil frequently.

 

[bully1027]

Originally posted by Fred T



Bully
Last season I used cheapo Castrol GTX 10W-40 and it worked great. I changed the oil every 100 miles. This season I've switched to Mobil 1 15-50 synthetic and I like it better as the bike shifts smoother and the first to second mis shifts have dropped off significantly. But the $1.50 a qt Castrol workes fine. The key is to change to oil frequently.

learn something new every day!

 

[fast 200]

you might want to think twice about putting regular oil in it . you should use a motorcycle oil it is made just for motorcycles it will help the clutch plates last longer honda makes a great 10w40 if you feel the regular oil and the honda oil you will see and feel the diffrence just put it on your finger and rub it together the honda oil is superior to any other

 

[BRush]

Originally posted by fast 200
you might want to think twice about putting regular oil in it . you should use a motorcycle oil it is made just for motorcycles it will help the clutch plates last longer honda makes a great 10w40

Sigh :think: . That's nothing more than urban legend. There are plenty of non "motorcycle specific" oils that are as good as or better than any of the MC specific oils - for a lot less money. In fact if you took two identical KDX's and used Wal-Mart el-Cheapo 10w-40 in one and Honda $High-Buck$ in the other (and changed oil, say every 4 rides) at the end of five years I doubt you'd be able to tell one transmission from the other. Almost any good quality motor oil will provide enough lubrication to protect your gearbox. Given any kind of a sane maintenance schedule, the real-world difference between oils comes down to clutch feel and shifting smoothness. If you find that, for you, the MC specific oil seems to shift better - then that's a valid reason to use it, and who am I to argue. However, to claim that all non MC oils are bad and should not be used is nonsense.