Government indoctrination centers...err, schools..

[spanky250]

OK, another story of supreme government idiocy .. government school idiocy. And this one, like so many others, comes from none other than the Gwinnett County, Georgia school system.

We go to the Five Forks Middle School. Amanda Williams is having her lunch. Later she will be suspended from school for NINE days for violating the schools zero-tolerance policy on drinking alcohol.

So, did Amanda sneak a shooter into school in her Brittany Spears lunchbox? Did she pilfer a beer out to of the fridge in the teacher’s lounge? Was she chugging Nyquil? Nope, none of the above. Amanda was drinking grape juice. She was drinking grape juice she got at the school cafeteria! And no, it wasn’t fermented.

So, how can Amanda be suspended for violating the school’s zero tolerance policy on alcohol --- for drinking grape juice? OK .. here’s the part where you need to be sitting down. Amanda was suspended because she joked with her friends that she was drinking wine. We all know how young girls like to act grownup.. so Amanda is trying to act grown up by joking that she’s drinking wine.

Suspended --- nine days. Mandatory. No exceptions.

If Amanda had actually brought some real wine into the school, the punishment would have been exactly the same. Makes a hell of a lot of sense, doesn't it?

Gwinnett County schools also have a zero-tolerance policy on smoking. What if some kid puts a pencil in his mouth and pretends to be taking a drag on a cigarette? Suspended? I guess so! Mandatory, you know. No exceptions!

I would suppose that Gwinnett County schools have a zero-tolerance policy on sexual activity. Well, what if one student confesses to a good friend her dream about a discussion of the big bang theory with the captain of the football team (an easier scenario to believe than the captain of the debate team)? Would revealing a dream violate zero-tolerance?

This is idiocy, my friends. Complete, unadulterated idiocy. These are government employees working in a government institution that has complete control over your child for hours a day … government employees showing the world how idiotic policies produce idiotic results.

Take a closer look at zero-tolerance policies. What is the purpose? The purpose, my friends, is to shield and protect government school administrators from actually having to exercise rational thought process in reviewing student conduct to see if it warrants punishment or not. The purpose is to make the administrator’s jobs easier. A equals B and B equals suspension. No thought -- No consideration -- No review of the facts -- No deliberation -- No thinking --- just acting. A perfect word for the typical government employee to inhabit.

And what do these zero-tolerance policies teach our children? They teach our children that the world is black and white --- no gray. A situation is either this way or its that way – and there can be no in between. It’s a simple bipolar world, good and bad, positive and negative, x or y, and there’s no need to make any use of your intellectual capabilities to interpret those thousands of points between.

In simple terms, zero tolerance policies teach our kids this one important lesson --- a lesson so important to the left. Don’t think. Just react.

 

[gibbs_6]

Thats totally stupidity some rules are just not meant to be.My highschool slacksoff when it comes to rules...considering kids dip during school and the teachers don't notice or don't care.:think

 

[Hucker]

Thats probably the funniest thing I have ever read. Grape Juice?? If I were you I'd be in there and having a little talk with the principal.

 

[JeffK]

It's all that money from the Georgia lottery going to the administrators heads.. clouds the brain up and they can't think straight. Just send your kids up/over here to SC where (all our money goes to GA lotto) we don't have any money invested in our schools.. You have to really do something to get kicked out here.. One of our high schools was in the news recently because a teenage girl had sex with 6 of the football team while on campus.. guess her dream came true... anyway they kicked them all out to prove a point to the other students and all they did was transfer to another school.. Hmmmm

 

[Miltonyz]

At my school we have the same policy. Before the school year starts they pretty much read the whole student handbook to us. The thing is the girl probaly knew. She knows what the school expects of her and that if she pretends to have drugs she will be in trouble. She disobeyed a rule set in stone and got busted. If you disliked the rule there was plenty of time to move her to a different school or to bring your issue up to the board BEFORE this all started. By staying in the school she accepted the school rules and the consequences of breaking them.

And what do these zero-tolerance policies teach our children? They teach our children that the world is black and white --- no gray.

What should they teach them? Go ahead and break the rules you won't get in trouble. Rules are for other people. If you cry and scream enough and get your mommy and daddy involved the rules don't apply to you. Nope
I have zero sympathy for someone that breaks the rules and then getting trouble cries that the punishment is unfair. If it's a stupid law lobby to get it changed talk to supervisors but don't break it. You can't start complaingingAFTER you're in trouble and expect them to change things for you.

 

[JeffK]

Quoted from Spanky

she will be suspended from school for NINE days

Quoted from Milton

By staying in the school she accepted the school rules and the consequences of breaking them.

The consequences should fit the crime.. Nine days?? That is excessive (in this case). I think suspension is excessive. They make rules for a reason and ok she may have broken one - but don't they still have detention and 'Saturday' school? What's she gonna learn by missing 9 days of school? Get in trouble and have a free vacation? Sending the wrong message.

 

[Miltonyz]

I'll agree that it is an excessive punishment for pretending to be drinking school cafeteria wine. But this was on the books ahead of the time. It's a little to late to complain now. As for the 9 day suspension that depends on the parents. Some wouldn't care the kid wouldn't learn anything and some (like mine) would make their kids life Hell for a loooonggg time.

 

[LVMarc]

People like this are the ones that make the evil in this world work. It starts off with a well meaning rule (no alcohol in school) and turns into a suspension for someone drinking grape juice. I can't believe that anyone could think this was reasonable. I look at every new law that is passed and think where is this going to lead. People that obsess on rules this way really scare me. Obviously her first ammendment rights were violated. It was tossed aside as if it did not exist. It is interesting how it is turning from the right to free speech to "you must prove to us first that you have a right to say something."

 

[Miltonyz]

People like this are the ones that make the evil in this world work. It starts off with a well meaning rule (no alcohol in school)

That is not what the zero tolerance rule is(at least around here) The zero tolerance rule says if you try to pass anything off as drugs then you will be treated like you have drugs.

Obviously her first ammendment rights were violated.

Your first admmendmant rights only exist as long as you do not infringe upon others rights. The schools feel if you have stuff at school stuff at school that you claim is drugs you are disrupting learning and infringing upon others rights.

I look at every new law that is passed and think where is this going to lead.

Change the rules don't break the rules. And if you don't change a rule then break it don't go crying that the worlds unfair.

 

[JeffK]

As for the 9 day suspension that depends on the parents. Some wouldn't care the kid wouldn't learn anything and some (like mine) would make their kids life Hell for a loooonggg time.

Saturday school will also make the student think - they miss no regular school and as an added bonus they get to go to school on Saturday while all their buddies are out playing or riding.. this ensures the punishment is taken seriuosly if not all parents are (like yours)...

In my day it was the paddle, ISS (in-school-suspension) and Saturday school .. very big detterents taking away your freedoms not giving you more. Suspension from school for 9 days was reserved for the kids that did something a little more harmful to the system that farting around with your friends at lunch.

 

[Miltonyz]

Yep but by lumping all drug related stuff under the zero tolerance rule farting around with your buddies is as bad actually bringing it to school. I agree with the susp thing. The kids that get in trouble that serious have for the most part parents who don't give a damn what there kid does. It is more worth while to make them come to school for extra time.
In my school for skipping you get saturday school you skip that you get iss if you fart around and don't report to that you can get suspended. So they can kick you out of school for skipping school.:eek:

 

[JeffK]

So they can kick you out of school for skipping school.

Been there done that... Ahhh the good ole days. Things were different when I was in highschool we had a 'skip-day' where everyone skipped that day.. people got sick notes if they were smart but the others... got another day off... who was the smart one?:p

 

[Wanker]

A Chance To Learn..

Does this not provide the students with a fine opportunity to teach the administration and learn about how to effect positive change ?
From what I read there was not a written zero tolerance policy towards pretending grape juice was alcohol. Those students would be well advised to pick a day where they ALL pretend that their grape juice is wine. Or have 50 kids a day do it. And pretend milk is wine.. and pretend coke is wine...and pretend water is wine. When a large portion of the school is suspended the parents and administration will ber forced to take a closer look at such an absurb interpretation of the policy.

It is a pity that ignorance isn't painful

 

[Miltonyz]

From what I read there was not a written zero tolerance policy towards pretending grape juice was alcohol.

Read again zero tolerance meens that anything that is passed off as a drug is treated as a drug. Thus grape juice is passed off as a drug alcohol is treated like she really had alcohol. As for civil disobedience I don't there there is enough brains and cohesion between the middle schoolers. I don't like the idea of it anyway. That would be teaching the kids that if we all break the law then they will change it.
And as for forcing the parents and admins to rethink I believe after they got suspended quite a few of the parents might have ways to change their childrens mind.

 

[Old CR goat]

It is absolutly ridiculous! I work around schools quite often, some of the things that go on would amaze and scare the hell out of most folks.
I have worked in Gwinnett Co. Ga. Though it was eight years ago, some of the rules then were ridiculous and it depended on which school your were in, if there was any attempt to enforce those rules.
I am usually about as big a hardass as there is, but some of this crap is getting to me.:mad:

A lot of the rules that do exist and are not enforced, should be. But to go to this extreme for this?? come on

 

[JeffK]

Check out this report
Zero Tolerance Link

Sometimes you just have to laugh. The funniest one was definitely the 6 year old being cited for 'sexual harrassment' for running out of the bath naked in his own home to tell the bus driver to wait for him..

 

[Wanker]

Middle Schoolers and Grape Juice

Civil disobedience is one of the most effective tools for positive change that this country has. When large groups stand up to absurd and/or unjust regulations the issues are brought out to the public and it can act as a catalyst for change. Civil rights in this country are where they are today thanks in part to healthy doses of civil disobedience.

I am hoping that my middle schooler is learning personal responsibility and accountability. If such a situation occured at her school and she were involved in an act of civil disobedience I would have a hard time punishing her if she had thought it through. There are enough sheep diguised as humans on this planet. I do not want her to be one of them. I do not want her to be afraid to stand up for what is right as long as the risks are understood. Her school also has a zero tolerance towards drugs etc. They are pretty standard. I have not yet heard of such a bizarre interpretation as that from her school. The kids are smarter than we give them credit for. And when the administration does something so obviously stupid the kids get the idea that the zero tolerance policy is a sick joke with little rationality behind it and consequently they have no respect for it. Fear, maybe. Respect, no.

When I was in Junior high we boycotted the lunch program to protest the militant manner of the lunch room monitor. 3 days of that and the monitor was replaced. Admins were angry. Parents got called. Kids were told to buy lunch. We stuck together and in the end the replacement monitor was a much better person for the job and was well liked by the students. It was better all around. Many adults were upset because the kids stood up to them. They did not like the idea that the kids were standing up to them instead of just doing what they were told.

 

[Natester]

Miltonyz, the premise of your argument is a little shakey. The whole point of a zero-tolerance policy is to keep kids away from drugs. According to our society's definition, alcohol isn't a drug in the same sense that pot or coke, etc. are. I personally don't agree with that, since way more people die from drunk driving "accidents" (they're not really accidents imho) than all the other drug overdoses, etc. The problem is that drinking wine around the dinner table is acceptable for adults in most households, and it's not considered evil or wrong, so when the girl pretends she's drinking wine, she perceives no wrongdoing. I'm sure you never did anything that wasn't totally adultlike and mature when you were 12, but for the rest of us imbeciles, the spirit of the law was grossly violated for the sake of the letter. Your attitude is truly frightening. :mad:

 

[Miltonyz]

Miltonyz, the premise of your argument is a little shakey. The whole point of a zero-tolerance policy is to keep kids away from drugs.

Alcohol is a drug. There is no arguing with that. it is a depressant. I'm not saying I did not and still don't do stupid things but I do not cry and hate the world when I get in trouble for doing something wrong. The fact is she was more then likely aware of the zero tolerance law and if not ignorance is not an excuse in our legal system. The point is the rule is written set in stone and you can not just making exceptions for Janie or whatever other kid has drugs.

When I was in Junior high we boycotted the lunch program to protest the militant manner of the lunch room monitor. 3 days of that and the monitor was replaced. Admins were angry. Parents got called. Kids were told to buy lunch. We stuck together and in the end the replacement monitor was a much better person for the job and was well liked by the students. It was better all around. Many adults were upset because the kids stood up to them. They did not like the idea that the kids were standing up to them instead of just doing what they were told.

That is boycotting I see no problem with boycotting if you do not like a product.
I do however see a problem with purposely breaking laws just to get them changed. In our goverment and system there are many other ways to bring about change without breaking the law.

Civil rights in this country are where they are today thanks in part to healthy doses of civil disobedience.

I agree one hundred percent. However that is totally different circumstances from what we see now. They were treated differently because of race and in fact the laws were against them because of there race. The rule as written is completely equal and applies fairly to all of the children.

Your attitude is truly frightening.

Why is my attitude scary because i believe that if a law is written it should be followed. If you dislike the law go ahead and work to change but don't wait until you get in trouble and then cry about how unfair it is. Because I beleive in accountability. I believe that lack of accountability and being always eager to blame someone else for your problems is screwing this country up. We are to darn eager to feel sorry for someone. The fact is they broke a rule that rule has consequences.

 

[LaRider20]

Miltonyz, I agree with your comments on accountability. It seems alot of people in this country of ours blame their problems on everyone but themselves. I see it time and time again.

Look out here comes the BUT.

But challenging the school board is like challenging the federal government. Joe Average will not win that fight, but once every 10 or 12 years. Schools and school boards want as little trouble especially legal trouble as possible. So they set-up strict guidelines that even the most dense teachers and administrators can follow and tell them to get after it. Where I come from this is called IDIOT-PROOFING. In our school district, if my child is being bullied at school, and decides to stand up to the bully at home after school by fighting, then the bus had better make the corner first. If they get off the bus and the bus goes farther up the road, then the kids start fighting and the bus driver sees it, it's looked upon just like they were fighting at school. SHEER STUPIDITY in my book. Can you say IDIOT! BTW guess who brought this to my attention...my son. He read the student handbook. Somebody call my lawyer!!
Miltonyz, though you make some very valid points, I'll have to side with the majority on this one.

 

[spanky250]

I can't believe any of you actually think this girl got what she deserved. Her only crime was acting like a kid. Zero tolerance policies exist for only one purpose, that is to ensure that the administrators don't have to think about a situation. Why examine the facts and evidence to see if any action is deserved when you can just fall back on the "zero tolerence, you're expelled" crutch? This is the same type of nonsense that caused a girl several months ago to be suspended from school for having a tweety-bird key chain, under the guise that "it is a chain, therefore it is a weapon". Under that reasoning, a key by itself isn't a weapon (even though a key could do some serious damage), but as soon as you put it on a keychain, it becomes a crime worthy of expulsion. When you teach your children that there is no room for deductive reasoning or consideration of facts and circumstances, and that everything is always spelled out in black-and-white, you are doing them a great disservice in my opinion. I want my children to be able to think and reason with their minds, not just be little sheep.

 

[XRpredator]

Have I been out of school that long? I can remember packing a folding knife on my belt, having a hunting rifle out in my rig on the street right next to the school, and probably all sorts of other things that are illegal now. What has our world come to?

That does it, I'm running for the school board!:debil:

 

[BRush]

To argue that *pretending* grape juice is alcohol somehow violated a no-alcohol policy is patently ridiculous. The zero tolerance insanities we are seeing serve to illustrate the truth of an old expression: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". Rather than protect school kids, zero tolerance policies have become a liability shield for timid school boards and educators. Yet educators are not totally to blame. We, in our sue-happy society, have to take a measure of responsibility too. In a world where a school district is one jury verdict away from budgetary ruin, zero tolerance can look like a rational alternative. No thinking required, and almost judgement proof. If you want educators to be able to make the (obvious) distinction that little Sally pretending grape juice is wine is a different kettle of fish from Wanda and her girlfriends chugging Wild Turkey in the girl's restroom, then you have to give them some room to make that judgement without the fear that the first time they call it wrong, they are going to be handed a subpoena. The real answer is tort reform, but with the ATLA funneling truckloads of cash to lobbyists, we are not likely to see that anytime soon.

 

[Jaybird]

If a kid brings talcum powder to school and tries to sell it as cocaine, suspend em. If they bring in sage rolled up and try to sell it as joints, suspend em. If a kid brings in grapejuice in a Matuse bottle and tries to sell it as wine, suspend her. But, for pretending she is drinking wine is hardly the intent of a zero-tolerance policy.

Take note folks, our whole country is full of idiotic rules and idiots who try to enforce them. Just about any of these idiots can be associated with a Gov. beurocracy of some sort.

My first suggestion for that school, being it's "zero-tolerant", is to urine test each and every teacher and administrator. Act consistantly after the results too.

 

[motometal]

Anyone who has studied weapons knows that a pen or a pencil could be used as an extremely lethal weapon. What are we going to do about that?

Let's face it, we live in a society where everything isn't "black or white" when it comes to laws and rules.

Kids will be kids, get over it. When I was in small-town-Iowa high school, we had kids bringing re-sealable pop bottles to school every day full of booze (kept in their lockers), other kids so stoned they couldn't hardly sit in a chair. Joking about grape juice?

Nice posting, Spanky.