CRF_450GUY514 said:Please if you get a two stroke to burn as clean as a 4 stroke mx can run it would be so close to running dangerously lean. 4 Stokes are just better designs they get gobs of lubrication two strokes don’t. So yes 4 stokes ARE cleaner bikes THEY DON’T BURN OIL plain and simple you cant get around the fact that a two stroke burns oil.
Also soon EFI will be coming to a 4 stroke near you lol, I would really love to see a two stroke burn as clean as a EFI 4 stroke bike, and to top it all off the 4 stoke will burn cleaner yet still get gobs of lube. And please no more fart comparisons, if your fart stinks more then your sons then that means your fart is more concentrated with higher levels of methane and sulfur SO YES YOUR FART WOULD BE DIRTIER lol.
As for the displacement rule being unfair I beg to differ, there is a reason why no one runs 2 strokes anymore and its because the 4 stroke is less tiring to ride and your able to go faster on it longer. So stop hating on 4 strokes its not there fault there a better design, of course a 4 stroke will be a bit faster on allot of tracks that’s what you get with a better design. 4 strokes HP numbers are dam near tide I think my 450 stock is about 48 HP well the two stroke 250’s are close or at the 48 HP mark, so again it just comes down to which bike is the better design.
CRF_450GUY514 said:Please if you get a two stroke to burn as clean as a 4 stroke mx can run it would be so close to running dangerously lean. 4 Stokes are just better designs they get gobs of lubrication two strokes don’t. So yes 4 stokes ARE cleaner bikes THEY DON’T BURN OIL plain and simple you cant get around the fact that a two stroke burns oil.
Also soon EFI will be coming to a 4 stroke near you lol, I would really love to see a two stroke burn as clean as a EFI 4 stroke bike, and to top it all off the 4 stoke will burn cleaner yet still get gobs of lube. And please no more fart comparisons, if your fart stinks more then your sons then that means your fart is more concentrated with higher levels of methane and sulfur SO YES YOUR FART WOULD BE DIRTIER lol.
CRF_450GUY514 said:As for the displacement rule being unfair I beg to differ, there is a reason why no one runs 2 strokes anymore and its because the 4 stroke is less tiring to ride and your able to go faster on it longer. So stop hating on 4 strokes its not there fault there a better design, of course a 4 stroke will be a bit faster on allot of tracks that’s what you get with a better design. 4 strokes HP numbers are dam near tide I think my 450 stock is about 48 HP well the two stroke 250’s are close or at the 48 HP mark, so again it just comes down to which bike is the better design.
Rich Rohrich said:If you are going to act like an overbearing tool out here, at least get YOUR facts right.
CRF_450GUY514 said:I also get about a hundred hours on my top end on my CRF, TRY DOING THAT WITH A TWO STROKE HAHAHAHA.
Matt Fisher said:Rich, the post I orignally responded to said:
I personally know several guys with way over a hundred hours on the top-ends of their 2-strokes, as I'm sure you do too. I never stated or insinuated that it was the best practice, any more so than it would be for a CRF.
Did I miss something? :whoa:
Rich Rohrich said:At 100 hours ANY modern race engine (2T or 4T) is clapped out. Just because some maintenance impaired goofball you know hasn't blown it to pieces doesn't make it a FACT that you can run it for 100 hours.
You are arguing with a guy who is clearly mis-informed about..... well..... everything. Posting nonsense pseudo-facts in response to him just drags you down to his level, and frankly makes my head hurt. ;)
Single compression ring four-strokes that are RACED hard start losing measurable power at around 8-10 hours. Depending on the port layout and the piston design two-strokes under the same conditions will do the same. Some of the 125s need rings at the 5 hour mark.
Just because people decide to live with the power loss doesn't mean it's not happening, and parts aren't worn out. People seem to think a part is not worn out until it exits the engine through some spectacular energetic disassembly event.
ALL RACE BIKES WEAR OUT. ALL HIGH SPECIFIC OUTPUT ENGINES RIDDEN BY RACERS WEAR OUT FAST.
Most riders can't even get their jetting within sniffing distance of correct, so expecting them to "feel" when their engines are worn out is laughable. Given how few hour meters I actually see in regular use, it's obvious to me that most riders have no idea how many hours they have on their engines. That is until they blow a hole in the cases, then they'll recite chapter and verse about their stellar maintenance practices, and quote you an EXACT number on hours even though they have never seen an hour meter let alone used one.
Two-stroke or four you can't change metallurgy and physics.
They put service intervals in the manual for a reason.
Matt Fisher said:And if a compression check yields the same good numbers at 50 hours that it did at 5, is there going to be a measurable power loss, or does that mean that the rings are good, but the piston skirt is ready to snap apart like a dry leaf?
Dekester said:On another note, I feel you are downplaying the higher repair costs of MODERN 4 strokes. It is one thing to compare regular maintenance. It is completely a different beast when comparing catastrophic failure, which happens to 2 strokes and 4 strokes.
The difference is HUGE in this department and can not be debated and should not be downplayed.
Rich Rohrich said:Compression checks on modern four-strokes are about as useful as handlebar tassles, and they aren't much better on two-strokes.
A leakdown test compared against a reference point is far more useful but not perfect.
Hours of run time is still the most reliable indicator for the average guy.
Matt Fisher said:Understood and appreciated.
If a top rider needs rings at 10 hours, and the spec calls for rings at 30 hours (or whatever it is), then what kind of hours could/should a trail rider plan on changing out rings? I know it's a grey area, but I'm just trying to get a feel for the difference in wear. Not waiting until it's ready to grenade, but not leaving mileage on the table, so to speak.
Matt Fisher said:Kinda like my dad- he gets 80,000 miles out of a set of tires, nearly twice the mileage the average joe would get out of the same set, and about 4 times what I'd be getting. If my dad were to change out his tires at 30,000 miles, the tire shop would likely ask him why, since he still has 3/4 of the original tread left.
Rich Rohrich said:At 100 hours ANY modern race engine (2T or 4T) is clapped out. Just because some maintenance impaired goofball you know hasn't blown it to pieces doesn't make it a FACT that you can run it for 100 hours.
You are arguing with a guy who is clearly mis-informed about..... well..... everything. Posting nonsense pseudo-facts in response to him just drags you down to his level, and frankly makes my head hurt. ;)
CRF_450GUY514 said:I assure you I’m not a goofball mechanic nor am I miss informed about anything;
Rich Rohrich said:That's usually the first thing a misinformed goofball leads with by way of rebuttal.:rotfl:
Your posts speak VOLUMES about your skill set.
But don't let me keep you, I know you should be donning your foil hat and checking for black helicopters from the US government right now. :whoa:
Maybe a new theory or a rehash of the lubrication or lack of in the tectonic plates of Kalifornia :coocoo:CRF_450GUY514 said:That’s cute Rich, speaking of the US government and black helicopters I am going to PM you something I think a smart person like yourself would love.
Yep you are right about you getting out.CRF_450GUY514 said::blah: :blah: :blah:
I edited this moron's conspiracy crap out of the post. RR
.
His post had nothing to do with this subject and was deleted for language content origonlly and he couldn't let it go. Question answered and any more responces to the off topic suject here will be deleted. Now back to 2T vs 4T debatingjustadirtbiker said:Wow how come you deleted that harmless post, I watched that video he was talking about DAM was it good.
Buy the way I'm new to the forums :cool:
Either way, I feel it's MUCH better to PREVENT catastrophic engine failure than to repair it afterward. The cost more than triples in most cases. I think I'll stick with routine maintenance.oldguy said:His post had nothing to do with this subject and was deleted for language content origonlly and he couldn't let it go. Question answered and any more responces to the off topic suject here will be deleted. Now back to 2T vs 4T debating
_JOE_ said:Either way, I feel it's MUCH better to PREVENT catastrophic engine failure than to repair it afterward. The cost more than triples in most cases. I think I'll stick with routine maintenance.
_JOE_ said:Either way, I feel it's MUCH better to PREVENT catastrophic engine failure than to repair it afterward. The cost more than triples in most cases. I think I'll stick with routine maintenance.
The only real difference between two and four stroke engines in this regard is most two-stroke engines give you a greater margin for acting like a dumbass.
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