Rotorranch
Member
- Feb 10, 2007
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The States...for now. Expect the rest of the world to follow.kingbrian said:
Rotor
have you heard
- Thread starter flyingfuzzball
- Start date
Rotor
I don't see this as a 2 stroke/4stroke debate and I hope it does not become one. My main point was about HONDA and their business decisions. My post did flow into other topics about 2 and 4 strokes but that was loosely related to the HONDA business decisions. I was not trying to create a debate.
keithcr250r
Member
- Apr 18, 2007
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long live the 2 strokes!!!
rmc_olderthandirt
~SPONSOR~
- Apr 18, 2006
- 1,533
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Rotorranch said:
Actually, a large portion of the world has already gone that way. When it comes to emissions, fuel economy, etc. Europe and Japan are way ahead of us.
Rod
It depends on what you consider way ahead. In terms of fuel economy and CO2 emissions (kind of interellated), yes they are ahead. But, in terms of particulate, sulfer, and most of all, NOx emissions, they are way behind. CO2 is harmless, but NOx causes smog and acid rain. That is why we don't have many diesel cars in the states. Did you know most of our Alaskan oil goes to Japan because its sulfer content is too high to use in the states?
76GMC1500 said:
Uhh.. Please don't post about things you don't have a clue about.
CO2 is not harmless..
It's painfully obvious that you are smart about a lot of topics. You can stop pounding your chest, trying to impress us with your incredible intellect.
So a 4 stroke dirt bike that gets 1 mile to the gallon would be better than a 2 stroke that gets 100 miles to the gallon?
Simply because the 2stroke emits "N0x" and the 4 doesn't?
Again go look at Evinrudes website. Their figures are Total Emissions, according to the EPA guidelines. Their two stroke emits less "harmful crap" (taken as a whole, CO2, NOx, unburnt fuel, etc) than their competitors 4 strokes.
I don't really care if the 2 stroke emits 10 more ppm sulfur than a 4 stroke, its overall emissions that the EPA cares about.
Simply because the 2stroke emits "N0x" and the 4 doesn't?
Again go look at Evinrudes website. Their figures are Total Emissions, according to the EPA guidelines. Their two stroke emits less "harmful crap" (taken as a whole, CO2, NOx, unburnt fuel, etc) than their competitors 4 strokes.
I don't really care if the 2 stroke emits 10 more ppm sulfur than a 4 stroke, its overall emissions that the EPA cares about.
lynch racing
Member
- Aug 13, 2004
- 142
- 0
The states for now? and the rest of the world will follow :whoa: Europe and Japan have been ahead of you for years!!! Just tell KTM and TM that all thier research and development are going to be banned! They are way ahead in the 144 game and it`s snowballing over here, America is not thier target market,what they sell there is only icing on the cake,not the cake... a trend is on the verge of reversing, :cool:rmc_olderthandirt said:
- Aug 7, 2006
- 1,162
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the problem is that the emissions of a 2T are far less than, for example, diesels. the EPA and the government have stretched it out.
lynch racing
Member
- Aug 13, 2004
- 142
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I agree...Honda , AMA, Business, future, :uh:Dekester said:
- Aug 2, 2000
- 13,504
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show me the numberslynch racing said:
Honda is trying to portray themselves as a green company. The 2-stroke isn't widely seen as a green engine, so Honda is dumping it. It's not about reality and science or actually reducing emissions, it's about public image.
Indy, my view that CO2 is relatively harmless is just as valid as your view that global warming is caused by CO2 emissions. Thanks to the media, sensationalism, and a general population who thinks their opinion matters on every subject despite having no backround or education in the subject, the scientific method is dead.
Indy, my view that CO2 is relatively harmless is just as valid as your view that global warming is caused by CO2 emissions. Thanks to the media, sensationalism, and a general population who thinks their opinion matters on every subject despite having no backround or education in the subject, the scientific method is dead.
- Dec 21, 2006
- 654
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Thats news to me. They make 50cc 4t but thats not equal to a 50 2t. And do they make a 4t for the 65 class? No, other than the 70 (which doesn't compare to a 65) there's no fourstroke for that class. And the 150R doesn't race 85, it races supermini. 66-85cc 2t and 75-125cc fourstroke is what's allowed in the 85 class.flyingfuzzball said:
flyingfuzzball
Member
- May 10, 2007
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- Thread starter
- #45
150rguy said:
i meant the major classes
and in some of the races i race in 150's are w/ the 80's
76GMC1500 said:
No sir. I think you are confusing the car company with the motorcycle company. They are dumping the 2 stroke because they put ALL their resources and energy into 4 stroke development and their 2 strokes can not compete. Declining sales year after year for honda. There are a ton of dealer leftovers and for more than one model year.
Yamaha does not have these problems as they continued to upgrade the YZ's throughout the years. Suzuki has come a long way (even if they are taking a lot of the improvements from Yamaha) and put effort into their 2 strokes as well.
- Aug 7, 2006
- 1,162
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Dekester said:
you left out the most commited brand to 2-strokes, KTM. KTM is our only hope for the survival of the 2T, especially by creating the KTM144.
rmc_olderthandirt said:
....While China makes up for any positive efforts by the rest of us by dumping clouds of black smoke into the atmosphere so that you can buy poor quality, disposable products at Wal-Mart, and then clutter up OUR (not Chinas) landfill with them.
sorry, sorta off topic there...
back on the discussion of the direct injection, don't forget the gyro effect of the engine. This is one thing that the four stroke designers have been fighting, and many of you as riders have felt it but may not have noticed or understood. Greater rotating mass has larger gyroscopic force, which resists change in direction (turning the bike). I can't say for sure, but I suspect that no matter what, a 250cc two stroke will have less gyro force than a 450, or even 350cc four stroke. The four stroke needs a relatively larger flyweel mass to keep it going in between strokes, as it doesn't fire as often.
So my point is, from that respect, even if the 2T ended up weighing as much, there may be handling advantages.
I think we are going to see fuel injection systems, and their associated complications, on MX bikes, two or four stroke.
So my point is, from that respect, even if the 2T ended up weighing as much, there may be handling advantages.
I think we are going to see fuel injection systems, and their associated complications, on MX bikes, two or four stroke.
