Help! Need technical advice...

[DaveRS575]

Well...seasons just about over here in NJ, so time to tear down and redo the top end of our bikes...

I have a problem though, in tearing down my buddy's 1990 KDX 200 we encountered a problem with one of the screws and I would appreciate any advice you guys might have:

The screw is the round head Philips head screw. It is the retaining screw for the KIPS rod assembly. It is the very last screw you have to take ou to pull the entire KIPS system apart. It seems impossible to turn but not stripped (yet) We have used liberal amounts of PB Blaster, tried banging on it to loose, tried mild heat, so so far, without success. We have ordered an impact driver (The kind you whack with a hammer) to prevent stripping it, but wondered if there is a better way to get it out.

Anybody? :whiner:

Thanks in advance!

Dave

 

[TWRT]

Impact drivers work wonders on stripped out phillips head screws, and other things for that matter.

 

[dirt bike dave]

I think the screw you are talking about is a left hand thread - go clockwise to loosen.

 

[DaveRS575]

Originally posted by dirt bike dave
I think the screw you are talking about is a left hand thread - go clockwise to loosen.

Thanks Dave... we did try clockwise though, to no avail unfortunately...same issue....

 

[DaveRS575]

Oh yeah....one more thing...it is screwed into the cylinder, and holds the arm inside the cylinder from coming out of there. It is *not* the nut on the actuator shaft (which is left handed thread).

 

[dirt bike dave]

Sorry, I was thinking of the nut on the actuator. It's been a while since I had my '90...

 

[CaptainObvious]

Dave,

Can you drill off the head and use a back-out tool on the remaining shank?

Gary

 

[gn83tm]

I tore into my '90 on new years day and was a little concerned about that screw when I came to it. I started to try loosening it with a regular phillips and fortunately stopped before I stripped the head. Pulled out my trusty $5 impact driver and it came right out. Those things are great for bike work! I also thought about putting a little heat on the front of the cylinder at that spot but didn't need to. It is standard thread.

Good Luck!

 

[beefking]

Yup that screw is a pain to get out, mine stripped with just a little bit of pressure. Had to use a center-punch (a sharp one) and hit it on the outside of the screw head towards the left, that was enough to get it out. Do yourselft a favor and replace it with a hex head!

 

[woodsy]

Beefking "hit the screw on the head"!!! I have worked in bike shops for years and have used that approach many times!!!! Another one is to take a dremel tool with a cutoff blade in it and cut a straight slot in the screw. Then use an impact driver - but I have been just as succesfull with the ol punch trick!!
Woodsy

 

[bh]

Take your screwdriver and loosen it, as you twist hit the end of the screwdriver with a hammer. This works sometimes just make sure to hold down and twist hard.

 

[DaveRS575]

Thanks for all the input guys, We will be using the impact screwdriver on Saturday... We will also take the advice of replacing it with a hex head for the future. Thanks again!

Dave

 

[aussie_ab]

Hope you have your screw out now,but if not apply heat to it and use some of the above methods like the centre-puch trick. You can use something like your girlfriends hair-dryer! This should get the little bugger. ........ AB

 

[DaveRS575]

Well....

Here's the bad news guys...maybe you can help... I think it's just about a lost cause though...tell me what you think:

Tried the impact screwdriver, stripped the bolt clean.
Notched the bolt and tried again....stripped that
Drilled the bolt out and attempted a easy out.. Broke the easy out in the hole.
We tried to drill it out regardless of the hardness of the easy out, and now have a mess. Looks like we'll need $400 for a new cylinder and all the associated parts with it like studs, etc.

HELLLP!!!! Any other options?

Anyone trying to get rid of a used but usable condition "b" tolerance cylinder from a 1989-1994 KDX 200????

 

[ZKDX]

you broke the ez-out! Ouch that's always trouble. Try to drill the ez-out out with a carbide tipped drill, low rpm, around 500-700....you might also try the Craftsman screw remover set ($20) to get the either the ez-out or the screw out...good luck keep us posted

 

[gn83tm]

OUCH!!!
Been there, done that type of thing. I've also fixed many situations like that in my former job but no longer have access to the equipment needed to help. I'd try to find a good machine shop (can sometimes be easier said than done) and see if they can cut the mess out in a mill with carbide tooling. It may need to be Heli-Coiled but should end up cheaper than a new cylinder. Ask before you leave it with them what they think it might take. There's no way for them to know for sure but at least you can give them a maximum you're willing to spend.

Some of the better equipped shops will also have disintegraters that they use to arc out broken taps out of expensive components. That would be the best way to get the hole clean.

Hindsight's always 20/20, but the screw must have been badly corroded to the aluminum and not just "tight". Those situations are usually best approched with some heat from a propane torch and a few shots of WD-40 or other penetrant as things cool down.

I feel for ya man!

 

[jdbrusch]

If the drill has skipped to the side of the screw and has started to dig into the aluminum this is not the end of the cylinder.In some cases I would have suggested to just drill and tap another hole but in this case they do not give you enough material around the collar(black thing) to do this.So we can go about this another way,the screw is just there to keep the collar in the cylinder,use the gasket from that cover to make up a plate that will cover the collar out of thin aluminum,drill the 3 holes for the mounting screws and drill a extra hole for the collar,just drilling it big enough so that it fits over the smaller portion of the collar,when you install the plate it will slide over the collar and hold it in place,you may want to drill a small hole in the plate to the left of the collar it will act as a breather hole for the little space there.Make sure you file the left over screw and easyout flush with the surface of the cylinder.Hope I explained this ok.Good luck :thumb:
If you ever run into this problem again try to heat up the fastener with a small propane torch,I use a small refillable butane type but a simple plumbing set up will work great.Heating the fastener and the aluminum around it will cause it to break the hold on the fastener(screw in this case) and you will be able to get it out with the impact screw remover.
Also put a small amount of neversieze on all fasteners that go into aluminum.I use it on ever bolt on everything on the bike.

 

[DaveRS575]

Originally posted by jdbrusch
the screw is just there to keep the collar in the cylinder,use the gasket from that cover to make up a plate that will cover the collar out of thin aluminum,drill the 3 holes for the mounting screws and drill a extra hole for the collar,just drilling it big enough so that it fits over the smaller portion of the collar,when you install the plate it will slide over the collar and hold it in place,you may want to drill a small hole in the plate to the left of the collar it will act as a breather hole for the little space there.Make sure you file the left over screw and easyout flush with the surface of the cylinder.Hope I explained this ok.Good luck :thumb:

Very cool! You sir, are a genius. Great idea! This is exactly what we will do! Thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you!!!!!! :thumb:

You are a credit to Canada!!

;)

Dave

PS: Did I say thanks? If not.... Thanks!!!! :cool: