I thought I had my mind made up to buy a

[skiz]

I thought I had my mind made up to buy a :think: YZ450F for myself and a TTR125 for my son, then an acquaintance talked me into a WR450F. . But now I'm reading discussions that say a 4stroke has high and frequent maintenance. . So now I don't know what I'm doing. . I've never owned a 4stroke before. . I sold my last bike 17 years ago and it was a KX250 2stroke.

Let me take the recommended quiz for me and my son

1) your physical size (both height and weight are important)
me: 6' 190ibs
him: 5'3' 100ibs and at 11years old is the "spitting" image of his 6'4" grandfather. . His 14 yr old sister (my daughter) is 5'10". . What I'm trying to say is that he's still growing and maybe alot more.
2) How physical / aggressive are you ?
me: On the tennis court and the ski slope I'm extremely aggressive. . On a bike, I haven't ridden for 17 years, so I don't know how fast it will come back to me. . My pace will be set by sticking with my son at whatever pace he is ready for.
him: Has never ridden before but very athletic in travel soccer and basketball
3) what do you plan to ride- MX/SX tracks, woods, fields with friends or ?????
No racing, yes woods, fields with friends or ?????
4) Do you have any riding experience?
me: started on gokarts at age5, Honda50, Hadaka100, Kaw175, KX250, then kids started at age28. . Got rid of the KX. . Now 17 years have passed.
5) Do you think you will race ?
me: No
him: Who knows, he's never ridden before. . We'll see how badly the bug bites him.
6) Are you mechanically inclined and will you be doing your own bike work?
Not mechanically inclined, not doing own work
7) Do YOU have a preferance to a brand/ motor choice (2 or 4 stroke)?
Not really
8) Do you have a dealer close by your home that you might use and what brand(s) does he carry?
Honda, Kaw, Yam, Suz, KTM
9) How much ($) do you plan to spend on a bike?
I'm open
10) Do you live in California?
No, Ohio
11) Your age?
me: 45
him: 11
12) anything else that you think would help form an opinion
I'm buying an enclosed 6x10 trailer this coming weekend unless somebody here says, "That's not a good idea because ..."

To those that respond, I thank you very much for the help

Skiz

 

[Chili]

First the easy stuff, do you plan to do anything else with the trailer other than haul 2 bikes and the basic associated gear? If so I'd recommend bigger. I've got a 6x12 with no V nose and by the time I get 2 bikes, 2 gear bags, a water barrel, pressure washer, tool box, air compressor, spare parts box, pit tent, extra set of wheels etc it's pretty full. Now granted that is for racing MX and I tend to carry everything but the kitchen sink "just in case" but I wish I had gone 7x14 or at least got the V nose.

For you the WR450F is a solid suggestion along with a Honda CRF450X or the Kawasaki KLX450. All are very capable off road race machines but are less aggressive than the MX version of each. 4 strokes can be maintenance intensive but the 450's are less so than the 250's and much less prone to catastrophic failure. For the purposes you mention here just keep the air filter clean and the oil changes fairly frequent and you'll likely enjoy several seasons of use out of those particular bikes with little trouble.

Your son is in a tougher spot and there is likely no real perfect fit that won't require an upgrade a year or two in due to growth and or improved riding skill. While the TT-R125L, Kawasaki KLX140L and the Honda CRF150F are all in the same market I would be looking at the Honda for no other reason than it has the tallest seat height of the three and your son is already close to the top end of the height range for those bikes.

 

[skiz]

One more thing

I put my son on some bikes at the local dealer and I thought that he was a good fit for bikes up to the 31" seat level on the TTR125. . The Yam website lists the shortest YZ at 34" (YZ85) so I think all of the YZs are out.

Kaw KX65 is 30". . The KLRs are under 31" up to KLX140.

All of the CR#Rs are over 31". . The CR#Fs are small enough up to CRF100F.

Suz RMs are all over 31". . DRZs are small enough up to DRZ125.

 

[skiz]

First the easy stuff, do you plan to do anything else with the trailer other than haul 2 bikes and the basic associated gear? If so I'd recommend bigger. I've got a 6x12 with no V nose and by the time I get 2 bikes, 2 gear bags, a water barrel, pressure washer, tool box, air compressor, spare parts box, pit tent, extra set of wheels etc it's pretty full. Now granted that is for racing MX and I tend to carry everything but the kitchen sink "just in case" but I wish I had gone 7x14 or at least got the V nose.

I was actually looking at a 5x8 but I thought the 5' was too narrow for 2 bikes. . I'll eventually have a Ford Edge to haul it with but right now it's going to be pulled around by a Honda Element. . I think the 6x10 will be Ok for me.

For you the WR450F is a solid suggestion along with a Honda CRF450X or the Kawasaki KLX450. All are very capable off road race machines but are less aggressive than the MX version of each. 4 strokes can be maintenance intensive but the 450's are less so than the 250's and much less prone to catastrophic failure. For the purposes you mention here just keep the air filter clean and the oil changes fairly frequent and you'll likely enjoy several seasons of use out of those particular bikes with little trouble.

I'm really more concerned with breakdowns than getting the very lowest maintenance cost. . Do you think there is a difference in probability of breakdown between 2+4strokes ?

Your son is in a tougher spot and there is likely no real perfect fit that won't require an upgrade a year or two in due to growth and or improved riding skill. While the TT-R125L, Kawasaki KLX140L and the Honda CRF150F are all in the same market I would be looking at the Honda for no other reason than it has the tallest seat height of the three and your son is already close to the top end of the height range for those bikes.

Maybe I'm approaching the bike size too conservatively. . When he was 6, I bought him a larger bicycle for Christmas so that he could use it as he grew. . When he saw the bike he was excited but then he tried to get on it and ended up getting teary because it was too big for him to get moving. . That experience has made me cautious about getting too big of a bike for him now. . But you think that at 5'3" he's "already close to the top end of the height range for those bikes", and the CRF150F has a seat height of 32.5". . He was tiptoeing the floor on the 31" seat on the TTR125 which I thought was just right.

Here's how the manu websites lists the bikes stroke + seat height
:ride: Yamaha
YZ85-2-34"
YZ125-2-39.3"
YZ250F-4-38.9"
YZ250-2-39.1"
YZ450F-4-39.3"
PW50-2-19.1"
TTR50E-4-21.8"
TTR110E-4-26.4"
TTR125E-4-30.5"
TTR125LE-4-31.7"
TTR230-4-34.2"
WR250F-4-38.6"
WR450F-4-38.6"
:ride: Suzuki
RM85-2-33.5"
RM85L-2-34.4"
RMZ250-4-37.6"
RM250-2-37.4"
RMZ450-4-37.6"
RMX450Z-4-??.?"
DRZ70-4-22"
DRZ125-4-30.5"
DRZ125L-4-31.7"
DRZ400E-4-37.2"
RMZ450Z-4-37.6"
:ride: Kawasaki
KX65-2-29.9"
KX85-2-33.1"
KX100-2-34.3"
KX250F-4-37.2"
KX450F-4-37.8"
KLX110-4-26.8"
KLX110L-4-28.7"
KLX140-4-30.7"
KLX140L-4-31.5"
KLX450R-4-37"
:ride: Honda
CRF150R-4-32.8"
CRF250R-4-37.6"
CRF450R-4-37.6"
CRF50F-4-21.6"
CRF70F-4-26.1"
CRF80F-4-28.9"
CRF100F-4-30.9"
CRF150F-4-32.5"
CRF230F-4-34.1"
CRF250X-4-37.7"
CRF450X-4-37.9"

What is your thought for a 5'3" 100ib and growing new rider ?

I'm fairly sure that I'll just pick a bike for myself based on the 2 of us having a single gas can. . If a 4stroke seems best for him, I'll just buy myself a 450 and we'll both run straight gas. . If a 2stroke seems best for him, I'll buy myself a 250 that has the same mix ratio.

Years ago, my friend and I had to keep seperate gas cans. . If I used his gas I would foul my plug. . I'm thinking my KX250 was a 32:1 and his CR125 was a 20:1. . But that worked for us because we were paying for ourselves. . Today, for my son and me, I don't see any reason not to buy so that we can fill from the same can.

Thanks for your input ! :cool:

Skiz

 

[Chili]

I'm really more concerned with breakdowns than getting the very lowest maintenance cost. . Do you think there is a difference in probability of breakdown between 2+4strokes ?

I don't think either if well maintained is more prone to breakdown. If your Son is real slow getting started then concerns for you will be fouling plugs with the 2 stroke and boiling over with the 4 stroke.

Maybe I'm approaching the bike size too conservatively. . When he was 6, I bought him a larger bicycle for Christmas so that he could use it as he grew. . When he saw the bike he was excited but then he tried to get on it and ended up getting teary because it was too big for him to get moving. . That experience has made me cautious about getting too big of a bike for him now. . But you think that at 5'3" he's "already close to the top end of the height range for those bikes", and the CRF150F has a seat height of 32.5". . He was tiptoeing the floor on the 31" seat on the TTR125 which I thought was just right.

Nothing wrong with being conservative as long as you are prepared to upgrade his ride in short order. Now a complete beginner and a woods rider are different stories but most kids I watch at the MX races are too big for 85's once they hit 5'5" and need to move onto 125's or 250F's.

At 13 my son was 5'4" and I did everything to try to stretch out another season on his 85 but in the end he was just too tall for it. If he was a complete beginner and not racing I would have left him on it until he was 5'6" or more.

 

[skiz]

I don't think either if well maintained is more prone to breakdown. If your Son is real slow getting started then concerns for you will be fouling plugs with the 2 stroke and boiling over with the 4 stroke.

fouling plugs I'm familiar with. . I used to carry a couple of fresh plugs and a socket+ratchet years ago. . If my KX250 ever gave me a problem starting, I'd swap out the plug and she was back to perfect.

boiling over 4strokes ? . What do you do about that ? . Do you just take a break and let it cool ?

Nothing wrong with being conservative as long as you are prepared to upgrade his ride in short order. Now a complete beginner and a woods rider are different stories but most kids I watch at the MX races are too big for 85's once they hit 5'5" and need to move onto 125's or 250F's.

At 13 my son was 5'4" and I did everything to try to stretch out another season on his 85 but in the end he was just too tall for it. If he was a complete beginner and not racing I would have left him on it until he was 5'6" or more.

So if I expand the possibilities to include higher seat bikes my biggest question becomes, what drives the choice between 2+4stroke for most people in my situation ?

Skiz

 

[Chili]

The 4 strokes need the air through the rads to help with cooling. You can let the bike cool or some guys who ride really tight technical trails add a fan to the rad to assist.

The 2 vs 4 in your Son's situation in my opinion is driven solely by the fact the 4 stroke trail bikes like the CRF-F's and the KLX etc are way easier to learn on and way more beginner friendly. The 2 stroke 85's and the CRF150R are high strung race bikes and while it's not impossible for a complete beginner to learn on them it's a little more dicey, the upside is if your son picks it up in a hurry the need to upgrade isn't as immediate.

 

[rmc_olderthandirt]

Trailer: I certainly wouldn't go smaller than a 6x10 but with the smaller tow vehicle I wouldn't recommend any larger either. Figure that if this hobby gets a good bite on you and the rest of your family (is there any more to the family?) you may be forced into a larger rig before long.


The WR450 sounds like a real good fit for you. They are a race capable bike, although a bit heavy due to the battery for the electric start, and the wider ratio transmission make them a bit better on the trail than the YZ model. In some states it is possible to turn a WR450 into a street legal dual sport bike.

For your son, the choice is not too easy. The bike I would recommend for him right now would be a TTR-125LE, as it would be a great bike for his first ride. The TTRs are very forgiving and the electric start will help avoid frustration. In very short order, however, that TTR will definitely be holding him back.

A year ago I bought a TTR-125LE that my daughter and wife were going to share. It is still the right bike for my wife but my daughter was ready for something a lot better after only a few weekends. My daughter is 5, 2-1/2 inches (she emphasizes that 1/2 an inch!), and since she is 22 years old there is no chance that she is going to grow any more!

As you have probably figured out the next size above the TTR-125LE's seat height are the 34 inch seats, which are generally very low performance, heavy bikes. Not a bike I would recommend for an athletic, growing boy. There is one exception: a KX-100. Last June I bought one of these for my daughter and it is working out well. Unfortunately, the KX-100 is a two stroke, which is generally not recommended for a rank beginner but the larger wheel size and longer suspension travel will be just the ticket for when you son starts riding aggressively.

The problem is how do you teach him the basics without getting him frustrated on a bike that can be a little temperamental.

If you don't mind the hassle and expense of upgrading a bike after only one season then I would start off with the TTR-125LE. Let him learn the basics on a bike that won't be stalling out on him and he can get going again with a push of a button. Then plan on upgrading to a KX-100 next year.

As for the maintenance issue: Dirt bikes come in two major classifications: High performance (race) and "trail" bikes. The trail bikes are all four strokes these days and they will have low performance engines that are pretty much bulletproof. These bikes are heavier, generally don't have the best suspension and are generally less expensive bikes.

The high performance bikes are built for racing, and their engines are simply not as rugged. They can be two stroke or four stroke, both will require frequent maintenance and periodic "preventative" rebuilds of the top end. Due to the engine being a lot simpler the two strokes are a LOT easier to rebuild and can be a lot cheaper, especially if you run them until something breaks. I don't believe that the four strokes are more prone to failure, it is just that it is a lot more work to rebuild them when the time does come.

As for both father and son having the same type of bike (2 vs 4 stroke), I wouldn't let the need of an extra gas can influence your decision. One thing that you are going to find is that you will be riding rather slowly to keep pace with your son. While his bike may be working hard enough to keep the plugs from fouling, if you are on a two stroke you may not be so lucky! ]

Rod

 

[skiz]

I certainly wouldn't go smaller than a 6x10 but with the smaller tow vehicle I wouldn't recommend any larger either. Figure that if this hobby gets a good bite on you and the rest of your family (is there any more to the family?) you may be forced into a larger rig before long.

I have a family of 5:
:boss: Me: 45: I think I'm leaning toward the multiple suggestions that I go with the WR450F. . I've never had a thumper before and since they're not just dogs anymore, I really wanta try one. . If the bug bites me hard again, I'll keep the WR450RF and buy a YZ250 and flop back and forth between 4+2stroke depending on weather and energy level and where we're going to ride.
:p Wifey: 46: Not the slightest bit interested in riding. . I put her on a bike one time about 20 years ago and it didn't work out too well.
:debil: Daughter: 17: Claims she wants to ride, but I'm thinking that she'll wash out pretty quickly. . She just doesn't have the personality for very physical sports. . If not she can stick with the TTR125LE and I'll get a bigger bike for my son.
:debil: Daughter: 14: Since she quit soccer and track last year, it's all about volleyball. . She even went to volleyball conditioning 3 times a week thruout summer vacation.
;) Son: 11: Gets to share the TTR125LE with big sis for now until she loses interest. . If she surprises me, then next spring I'll buy him something else based on his growth over the winter and the progress he shows this fall.

So getting back to your point:
I will be hauling 2 bikes for now, probably 2 bikes next year, but maybe 3 bikes.

The WR450 sounds like a real good fit for you. They are a race capable bike, although a bit heavy due to the battery for the electric start, and the wider ratio transmission make them a bit better on the trail than the YZ model. In some states it is possible to turn a WR450 into a street legal dual sport bike.

For your son, the choice is not too easy. The bike I would recommend for him right now would be a TTR-125LE, as it would be a great bike for his first ride. The TTRs are very forgiving and the electric start will help avoid frustration. In very short order, however, that TTR will definitely be holding him back.

A year ago I bought a TTR-125LE that my daughter and wife were going to share. It is still the right bike for my wife but my daughter was ready for something a lot better after only a few weekends. My daughter is 5, 2-1/2 inches (she emphasizes that 1/2 an inch!), and since she is 22 years old there is no chance that she is going to grow any more!

As you have probably figured out the next size above the TTR-125LE's seat height are the 34 inch seats, which are generally very low performance, heavy bikes. Not a bike I would recommend for an athletic, growing boy. There is one exception: a KX-100. Last June I bought one of these for my daughter and it is working out well. Unfortunately, the KX-100 is a two stroke, which is generally not recommended for a rank beginner but the larger wheel size and longer suspension travel will be just the ticket for when you son starts riding aggressively.

The problem is how do you teach him the basics without getting him frustrated on a bike that can be a little temperamental.

If you don't mind the hassle and expense of upgrading a bike after only one season then I would start off with the TTR-125LE. Let him learn the basics on a bike that won't be stalling out on him and he can get going again with a push of a button. Then plan on upgrading to a KX-100 next year.

As for the maintenance issue: Dirt bikes come in two major classifications: High performance (race) and "trail" bikes. The trail bikes are all four strokes these days and they will have low performance engines that are pretty much bulletproof. These bikes are heavier, generally don't have the best suspension and are generally less expensive bikes.

The high performance bikes are built for racing, and their engines are simply not as rugged. They can be two stroke or four stroke, both will require frequent maintenance and periodic "preventative" rebuilds of the top end. Due to the engine being a lot simpler the two strokes are a LOT easier to rebuild and can be a lot cheaper, especially if you run them until something breaks. I don't believe that the four strokes are more prone to failure, it is just that it is a lot more work to rebuild them when the time does come.

As for both father and son having the same type of bike (2 vs 4 stroke), I wouldn't let the need of an extra gas can influence your decision. One thing that you are going to find is that you will be riding rather slowly to keep pace with your son. While his bike may be working hard enough to keep the plugs from fouling, if you are on a two stroke you may not be so lucky! ]

Rod

I'm starting to get a clearer picture of my direction. . I'll go WR450F + TTR125LE for now. . If my daughter stays in the mix, we'll jump to 3 bikes. . And if my son + I really start jammin, I'll get us both 2strokes plus keep our thumpers. . Of course we'll only be trailering the 4stroke pair OR the 2stroke pair at any one time.

If this hobby really clicks for both of us, I'm not afraid to sink a little more money into it. . I'm just very focused on making the right choice to limit the possibilities of breakdowns. . Since I'm no mechanic, I'm very willing to give up top notch performance for increased reliability, so I think I'll stick with Yamaha. . There's nothing worse than getting charged up all week long about an upcoming ride and then the bike puking out just when you're having a blast

Thanks for your opinion, Old dirt, it helps me think everything thru to hear the conclusions others have come to.

Skiz

 

[GoldDrum]

My buddy has a WR450 and loves it. Don't think he would own anything else. Good choice.

 

[jb_dallas]

Skiz

In my experiences, I have found the Yamaha engines to be very reliable. I owned a 99 YZ400F that I recently sold due to the fact that I ride trails and it was an MX bike. I bought a very low milage 2001 WR426 and I love the bike. It has all of the free mods and it runs like hell. It is basically the same engine design as the YZ with gearing more conducive to trial riding. I also have a 2001 XR400 that my friends ride. The XR is stone cold reliable and low maintenance, but it is a bit heavy and slow in my opinion. The bottom line is that you pay for performance in the form of maintenance and/or modifications.

 

[rmc_olderthandirt]

The WR450 is a great bike. Several guys in my club have them and race them in enduros.

I wouldn't rule out any of the women in your family! My wife rides a quad and while she can't keep the pace with our son, daughter or me we do always include a "family" ride where we do ride at her pace and on trails she can handle. This makes it a family outing and we all have a good time. When everyone has a good time we get to do it more often.

As for the trailer, you might want to consider an open trailer rather than an enclosed trailer. The handlebars are the widest part of the bike and they can hang over the sides on an open trailer, allowing for more room and more importantly the ability to get the bikes into the space.

Rod