Important MI Single-Track Legislation

*** Update ***

Recap of the meeting…. (Sorry for the late follow-up, but it was a busy weekend).

In attendance we had RickShaw, WildBill, BigBobT, and myself. We waited for Young Ted, but suspect that he didn’t get the notice of the location change, and may have shown up at the Big Boy instead. Hopefully something else came up, and he didn’t make the trip up for nothing. The Senator was about 35 minutes late, but his assistant notified us of this, and he had a worthy excuse – reading stories to elementary school kids (awwww).

- Senator Garcia gave a brief history, overview, and his involvement with the bill. It all started around the Fall of 2002 when a friend (and district constituent) named Oliver Durham contacted the Senator about limited access for Argos to the trail system. Mr. Durham is the long-time owner of Argo World Enterprises, headquartered in Howell. Mr. Durham’s issue was that this lack of trail access was a problem for his customers, and potentially limiting his sales.

- While there are hundreds of miles of existing trails/routes available to Argos today, the majority of them are up in the UP. This is the primary complaint; not enough trails in the lower peninsula, especially the southern half. FWIW, I have to drive 2.5-3 hours to find trails myself, but I’m not asking my representative to propose a bill for closer single-track trails. Hmmmmm…. :think:

- We brought up the consideration that while Argo owners may have a legitimate complaint about lack of trail access, they are most definitely a small minority compared to all other ORV vehicle types. We pressed Senator Garcia to find out the actual number of Argo ORV users that this bill would ultimately affect and benefit. To date, it appears that this has never been researched. In a democracy, every voice should be heard, but “tyranny of the minority” comes to mind here. We asked the Senator to consider weighing the value/benefit of this bill to the effort, money, and resources required to research and implement it.

- The Sierra Club is also a vocal opponent of the bill, citing environmental concerns and trail damage. A 900 pound trail tank with 8 large wheels turning and churning up the terrain certainly has a much greater environmental impact compared to a dirt bike. Not that I’m going to be making a donation to the Sierra Club any time soon, but I can’t argue with their logic on this point.

- The Senator indicated that without the full support and backing of the DNR, the bill would not even be put to a vote by the House or Senate, as the Governor would not sign anything that was opposed by the DNR.

- We proposed 2 alternatives to SB-110:

1) As the CCC has also suggested, opening up the forest roads in the lower peninsula would provide hundreds of miles of additional access to Argos (and possibly other 2 and 4-wheeled ORVs).

2) Create new trails specifically geared for the Argos. The senator agreed (and I think that this is key) that all new trails, and all trail enhancements specifically designed for Argos, should be funded directly from fees accessed on Argo owners. We also emphasized that the vast majority of trail maintenance today is done by volunteer clubs and ORV enthusiasts. Following the trail maintenance model used today, all new trails and/or trail enhancements should be performed by Argo volunteer clubs and/or enthusiasts. The senator agreed that this makes perfect sense.

- In the end, the Senator conceded that he did not provide any guarantees to Mr. Durham on this bill, only that he would put forth a good faith effort to research it, and see if a solution could be developed that would provide better access to Argo users, while at the same time not negatively affecting the recreational use of the trail by other ORV users.

- Senator Garcia is going to provide a recap of the meeting to his assistant Brett, as well as forward on all the hardcopy documentation we provided opposing the bill. Brett is the Senator’s administrative lead on the research and preparation of this bill. Moving forward, we will be in much tighter communication with Brett regarding all aspects of this bill.

- Overall, I believe that the meeting went very well. We had an opportunity to hear the other side of the story, and get a better feel for the intent and purpose of the bill. At the same time, Senator Garcia was able to get gather some valuable feedback from the off-road enthusiasts that would be directly affected by this bill.

I may have missed some things, so for anyone else that was present, please add any additional comments.

Thanks for everyone’s continued support on this. While I’m comfortable that this bill will not be passed anytime soon, and certainly not in it’s current form, it’s nice to know that we’ve been able to provide some valuable input. If anyone is interested, I have a tape recording of the meeting that I can make available.

It was also good to finally meet BigBobT (the name belies the man) and WildBill (ditto!). RickShaw – As always, the pleasure was all yours! I hope the next time we meet we’re inhaling pre-mix and twisting through the trees!

Smit-Dog, excellent write-up. Thanks for bringing us up to date. I'm glad you guys represented us all well and took the time out of your day to do so.

Smit-Dog said:

......This is the primary complaint; not enough trails in the lower peninsula, especially the southern half. FWIW, I have to drive 2.5-3 hours to find trails myself, but I’m not asking my representative to propose a bill for closer single-track trails. Hmmmmm…. :think:

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Now that you are an experienced lobbyist, perhaps some southern single-track trails would be in order! :yeehaw:

Seriously, I think a trail system down by Red Bud MX Track would be a neat area. It's great landscape. However, it would get absolutely POUNDED with out-of-state as well as southern Michign riders, but would bring in more big dollars for trail maintenance on the rest of the trails.

Sorry, I digress. Thanks again!

They want to open up the trails for THIS THING?! :eek:

why not??? it would be perfect for the Mounds!!!!!

seriously gents, we really owe Slick Willy Smit-dog bigtime for his efforts to coordinate and document the SB110 meeting for Senator Garcia!

Billy, don't get used to this but.... :worship:

And don't slack off on sending letters...who's next???

rickshaw

That's one of the little ones Fender. I saw one taking off up on the Big Bear loop (the ORV Route). I made sure to go the other way! To say that I would be on the losing end if I met one at "speed" around a corner is an understatement.

Thanks for working on this, guys. It's nice to see that facts and reality were not part of the picture prior to your involvement. One thing not brought up (I think) but I would like to see is for them to bring the Senator and a few "buddys" up to Gladwin. There is plenty of trail that would meet the technical description they could ride on. Before you think I'm off my rocker (which I am) imagine riding one of those - at ANY speed - through the whooped out sand fest that is Gladwin. I suspect less than 5 miles would change their minds about needing to get these beasts on ORV Trails.
We could also let them play on the ORV Route, where they would quickly get bored, and for the grand finale we could let them see the flooding areas that they can't access 'cause the forest roads are closed to ORVs. Imagine all that prime swamp that those amphibious machines were _built_ for and they can't touch it. Hmmmm

2TrakR said:

That's one of the little ones Fender.

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:ohmy: And I thought QUADS were a waste of space! :|

Oh yeah, I can just imagine how funny it would be to see one of those things teetering around on some of those sand whoops in Gladwin! :laugh:

And a big thanks to Smit-Dog for all of his hard work!

Smitty - A big thumbs-up and THANK YOU!! We all need to be more involved. It's the "less fun" side of our sport, but obviously very necessary. Your efforts are sincerely appreciated!

To all of you that wrote letters and attended the meeting: :thumb: It's you guys that keep the sport alive and kickin'!

Thanks Smit-Dog for pulling this together and the detailed notes and write-up here. It was good meeting you and WildBill along with seeing RickShaw again on Friday.

I don't really see this going to far as it has not been a high priority for Garcia and doubt it will be soon. I'm really surprised at how little he knew about the subject. I think opening up the forest service roads in the lower peninsula is a reasonable approach but probably would face a lot of opposition too, primarily from adjacent land owners.

Best idea yet is we should be lobbying for more single track!!!

I erred. Left for Ohio before the location change came through and never thought to set up for a recheck Friday morning. Can't win all of them.
Young Ted

Young Ted - I feel bad man! I couldn't e-mail you, but figured you'd get the e-mail notification of new posts to this thread.

With you a no-show at 3:45pm, we had a sinking feeling that you might be at Big Boy. I called the restaurant in Okemos and Howell, and asked if there was a gentleman sitting alone, waiting to meet someone. The hostess at the Howell Big Boy mentioned that a guy with a jacket full of pins was there, but left 20 minutes ago. I suspected that it was you, with a bunch of POG pins.

FWIW, we told the Senator that there was a guy driving all the way up from Illinois in support of the meeting. You were there in spirit.

Smit-Dog,

Excellant write-up, but it was to be expected after seeing all of the preparation that you did for the meeting. It was great to meet you, RickShaw and BigBobT and it would have been an honor to have met "Young Ted" after the posts I have read. It would be even better to be able to meet up with you guys for a ride this summer along with the gyus I normally ride with.

Ps. Congrats on the new ride.

Bill

Bill - Please don't feel bad. What counts is that we try. I had seen the signs to Garcia's office on the way to the Big Boy, so about 3:40 I went to the township office looking. They knew nothing about any meeting so I headed back to the Big Boy and they told me of the location change. I had no choice but to head for home. So actually I was within a stones throw of you guys and didn't know it.
WildBill - You are what is fuel for my engine of life. Thank you.
We'll all meet someday, be it riding or in a dinghy. Young Ted

Based on RetiredShaw's field report on the recent closing (or relocating?) of Argo World in Howell, I sent an e-mail to Bret Totoraitis, Deputy Legislative Coordinator for Senator Garcia. I asked him about the status of SB 110. Here is his response (emphasis is mine):

Bret Totoraitis said:

Dear Mr. Smith:

Senate Bill 110 died in the Senate on December 29th when the 92nd Michigan Legislature concluded without passing it. Senator Garcia does intend to reintroduce the bill this year, but he is committed to push the bill only after a genuine effort to find some middle ground between
those that want it and those that oppose it. I will make sure to relay your e-mail to Senator Garcia so that he can make note of your opposition to the concept. Any constructive advice about how to improve the existing language would be appreciated.

Sincerely,

Bret Totoraitis
Deputy Legislative Coordinator
Senator Valde Garcia, 22nd District
(517) 373-2420

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I'm following up with Bret to reiterate the same alternatives we proposed at the meeting with the Senator back in March of 2004. The bill has been stagnant for 2 years now, and finally died last month... and the Senator thinks that reintroducing it is a good use of time, effort, and money? :think:

[/QUOTE]I'm following up with Bret to reiterate the same alternatives we proposed at the meeting with the Senator back in March of 2004. The bill has been stagnant for 2 years now, and finally died last month... and the Senator thinks that reintroducing it is a good use of time, effort, and money? :think:[/QUOTE]


well maybe all the hot chicks are busy right now so he don't have anything else to do

Bill,

Thank you for initiating the contact and follow-up with Bret on all our behalf. Please keep us posted and let us know what we can do, if anything. You'd think that the Senator would have more pressing issues to deal with.

To bad "The Bottom Line" has been turned off. This topic was made for him. :laugh: Is that you TBL, we have a bad connection, I can't hear you. :nener:

More pressing issues for Garcia....you mean like running for Govenor. He does not feel that the Republicans are well represented with candidates.