Important MI Single-Track Legislation
- Thread starter Trailridin
- Start date
Ron Mollitor sent me a note this morning stating the re-newed interest by the CCC to pursue Valde Garcia and this bill. I also forwarded this link and he will give us an update on their progress. Ron also suggessted we as the Michigan Trail Riders represent ourselves to show Garcia the numbers of people who contribute to the trail system and are opposed to this legislation.
So, Billy, is it you and me to meet with him next Friday?
So, Billy, is it you and me to meet with him next Friday?
- Oct 28, 2001
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We have a date....
Friday, March 12th, 3:30pm
Big Boy, Howell.
I'll go out on a limb here and guess there's only 1 Big Boy in Howell, presumably next to a tractor/cattle feed store somewhere.
Found it...
Big Boy of Howell
2222 East Grand River
Howell , Michigan 48843
Phone No: (517) 548-1800
http://maps.msn.com/map.aspx?ID=27C...8&TI=2222+E+Grand+River+Ave,+Howell,+MI+48843
Friday, March 12th, 3:30pm
Big Boy, Howell.
I'll go out on a limb here and guess there's only 1 Big Boy in Howell, presumably next to a tractor/cattle feed store somewhere.
Found it...
Big Boy of Howell
2222 East Grand River
Howell , Michigan 48843
Phone No: (517) 548-1800
http://maps.msn.com/map.aspx?ID=27C...8&TI=2222+E+Grand+River+Ave,+Howell,+MI+48843
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Anbody else want a piece of the action? Seriously, Bill and I will put together a strategy and present the concerns of safety, cost to taxpayers, exposure to the media, and the limited number of people who would benefit from the lame @$$ piece of legislation.
I would invite michman, but he's suffering from some type of hair growth spurt :p
rickshaw
I would invite michman, but he's suffering from some type of hair growth spurt :p
rickshaw
Gentlemen,
I sincerely appreciate your work on this bill. I often lurk and randomly post, but I truly appreciate the DRN, MTR and CCC communities. How long do you think the meeting will run? I'm swamped at work right now, but I will bust my backside and I will get out of work early and get their on my way home if it will help. I fired off what I think was a thought out and decently written letter to our senator this morning as well. Thanks again for your efforts and I look forward to meeting you guys and the senator next Friday.
Bill
I sincerely appreciate your work on this bill. I often lurk and randomly post, but I truly appreciate the DRN, MTR and CCC communities. How long do you think the meeting will run? I'm swamped at work right now, but I will bust my backside and I will get out of work early and get their on my way home if it will help. I fired off what I think was a thought out and decently written letter to our senator this morning as well. Thanks again for your efforts and I look forward to meeting you guys and the senator next Friday.
Bill
- Oct 28, 2001
- 4,704
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Rick, WildBill, (anyone else)...
Slight change in plans. Robin called to see if the meeting could be changed to another day. Evidently Senator Garcia has another commitment he is trying to fulfill this week.
I suggested a morning meeting instead of afternoon to see if we could still make this happen this week. This time change allows the Senator to make his other obligation. So, can everyone meet at 8:30am, this Friday instead?
Inca - Appreciate the offer to join in on the meeting. I realize that it's a long drive for you, so a well-stated letter to the Senators involved would be just as powerful.
Thanks...
*** EDIT UPDATE ***
Robin called back yet again. The senator can now meet at either 8:30am, or our originally scheduled time of 3:30pm. Either one works for me. Preference?
Slight change in plans. Robin called to see if the meeting could be changed to another day. Evidently Senator Garcia has another commitment he is trying to fulfill this week.
I suggested a morning meeting instead of afternoon to see if we could still make this happen this week. This time change allows the Senator to make his other obligation. So, can everyone meet at 8:30am, this Friday instead?
Inca - Appreciate the offer to join in on the meeting. I realize that it's a long drive for you, so a well-stated letter to the Senators involved would be just as powerful.
Thanks...
*** EDIT UPDATE ***
Robin called back yet again. The senator can now meet at either 8:30am, or our originally scheduled time of 3:30pm. Either one works for me. Preference?
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Bill,
Again, I appreciate the efforts you and Rick are investing in this effort and the opportunity to join you. I'm at the office by 7am during the week and I am hoping to get out early enough on Friday to join you if the meeting starts at 3:30. So the afternoon meeting would be the most viable for me, but please do what works best for the two of you and I will do my best to be there in support.
Thanks,
Bill
Again, I appreciate the efforts you and Rick are investing in this effort and the opportunity to join you. I'm at the office by 7am during the week and I am hoping to get out early enough on Friday to join you if the meeting starts at 3:30. So the afternoon meeting would be the most viable for me, but please do what works best for the two of you and I will do my best to be there in support.
Thanks,
Bill
- Oct 28, 2001
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*** LOCATION CHANGE ***
The meeting location has been changed to:
Sterling Business Center
5864 Sterling Drive
Howell, MI 48843
Senator Garcia's Phone Number: (517) 373-2420
Map (it's south of Grand River, west off Dorr Road):
http://maps.msn.com/map.aspx?ID=27C...2195388&TI=5864+Sterling+Dr,+Howell,+MI+48843
Same time - 3:30pm.
The meeting location has been changed to:
Sterling Business Center
5864 Sterling Drive
Howell, MI 48843
Senator Garcia's Phone Number: (517) 373-2420
Map (it's south of Grand River, west off Dorr Road):
http://maps.msn.com/map.aspx?ID=27C...2195388&TI=5864+Sterling+Dr,+Howell,+MI+48843
Same time - 3:30pm.
I just had an interesting conversation with a friend of mine today. He started telling me that he is thinking about buying a Yamaha Rhino and wondered about trails he could ride it on. The Rhino is a side by side somewhat sportier work quad that is 54.5" wide. I was always thinking this bill was only addressing Argos but in fact seems to be addressing many work or side by side quads.
Since I have not been on many trails, I would really like a little clarification. I thought single track trails were only for motos and ATV trails were wider that could be used with traditional quads. Isn't this bill to widen the ATV trails from 50" to 57"? Does it even address single track trails?
I have more questions then answers but would hate to see true single track trails be opened up for ATV's of all sizes. However, it would seem that there is a growing market and demand for the wider ATV's and maybe some of the ATV trails should be able to accomidate them.
Finally, I probably can make myself available tomorrow for the meeting with Senator Garcia if it would be helpful to have more bodies present in support of motorcycles.
Since I have not been on many trails, I would really like a little clarification. I thought single track trails were only for motos and ATV trails were wider that could be used with traditional quads. Isn't this bill to widen the ATV trails from 50" to 57"? Does it even address single track trails?
I have more questions then answers but would hate to see true single track trails be opened up for ATV's of all sizes. However, it would seem that there is a growing market and demand for the wider ATV's and maybe some of the ATV trails should be able to accomidate them.
Finally, I probably can make myself available tomorrow for the meeting with Senator Garcia if it would be helpful to have more bodies present in support of motorcycles.
- Oct 28, 2001
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Big Bob... good to hear from you!
There are a limited amount of funds available to the DNR for trail maintenance. This legislation would require the widening of 1,700 miles of designated state forest trails, and 450 miles of National Forest trails to accommodate ORVs up to 57" in width. The DNR estimates that this effort may cost upwards of $5.4 million. This is your money. Is this the best use of it?
And as it stands now, there are already over 9,900 miles available in the state of Michigan to ORVs greater than 50" in width.
The widening effort would require tree and stump removal, and in some cases trail bed construction. The vast majority (if not all) trail maintenance is performed by volunteer clubs and organizations. What clubs are going to volunteer to widen all these trails by 7"? Granted these clubs are reimbursed for expenses, but do you think the CCC, with almost $180,000 in trail maintenance funds available, is going to be interested in this type work?
While this bill may not directly affect ORV cycle-only trails, a substantial portion of the trails we ride would be affected. It's one thing to share the trail with quads, many of which have the chassis, engine, and suspension to travel and navigate the trails at a decent pace. Vehicles with similar maneuverability traits and speed averages can co-exist safely on the same trail system. Large, slow moving, 900lbs trail tanks that occupy the entire trail width cannot coexist safely with dirt bikes and quads.
The value proposition for this bill is just whacked, IMO. :|
There are a limited amount of funds available to the DNR for trail maintenance. This legislation would require the widening of 1,700 miles of designated state forest trails, and 450 miles of National Forest trails to accommodate ORVs up to 57" in width. The DNR estimates that this effort may cost upwards of $5.4 million. This is your money. Is this the best use of it?
And as it stands now, there are already over 9,900 miles available in the state of Michigan to ORVs greater than 50" in width.
The widening effort would require tree and stump removal, and in some cases trail bed construction. The vast majority (if not all) trail maintenance is performed by volunteer clubs and organizations. What clubs are going to volunteer to widen all these trails by 7"? Granted these clubs are reimbursed for expenses, but do you think the CCC, with almost $180,000 in trail maintenance funds available, is going to be interested in this type work?
While this bill may not directly affect ORV cycle-only trails, a substantial portion of the trails we ride would be affected. It's one thing to share the trail with quads, many of which have the chassis, engine, and suspension to travel and navigate the trails at a decent pace. Vehicles with similar maneuverability traits and speed averages can co-exist safely on the same trail system. Large, slow moving, 900lbs trail tanks that occupy the entire trail width cannot coexist safely with dirt bikes and quads.
The value proposition for this bill is just whacked, IMO. :|
Good overview of the situation, Smit-Dog. As you say, the value verses the cost does seem wacked. And you don't want to share the trail with a 1500 pound diesel John Deere Mule (57" wide) chugging along?
I just think it is important to realize that there are more then just Argos in the 50-57" catagory with more coming to market and this needs to be kept in mind. Doesn't mean we need to bring it up all the time but just understand that there are other interests out there, more then just Argo owners, that want to see this passed.
I will try to make it to this afternoon's meeting since I would like to show support for the motorcycle side of the argument.
I just think it is important to realize that there are more then just Argos in the 50-57" catagory with more coming to market and this needs to be kept in mind. Doesn't mean we need to bring it up all the time but just understand that there are other interests out there, more then just Argo owners, that want to see this passed.
I will try to make it to this afternoon's meeting since I would like to show support for the motorcycle side of the argument.
- Oct 28, 2001
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Point taken on the needs of other ORV vehicle types. Interestingly enough, the 700 member Michigan ATV Association (MATVA) opposes this bill. I spoke with Rich Rondeau, president of the association, about this very issue.
Although not officially called "The Argo Bill", that particular vehicle is the genesis of this legislation. In fact, there was an open house at the Argo distribution headquarters here in Michigan (Howell) at the onset of this bill's introduction. Senator Garcia was there, and so was the MATVA.
Hope to see you at the meeting, otherwise we'll provide an update afterwards.
Although not officially called "The Argo Bill", that particular vehicle is the genesis of this legislation. In fact, there was an open house at the Argo distribution headquarters here in Michigan (Howell) at the onset of this bill's introduction. Senator Garcia was there, and so was the MATVA.
Hope to see you at the meeting, otherwise we'll provide an update afterwards.
One other comment regarding this bill is why is this even being considered when that state has so many budget issues at this time? If there was a postive impact on the economy, which I can't see it having a net gain, I could understand addressing it now. However, that doesn't seem to be the case.
Just seems like really, really poor timing from a money stand point.
Oops, guess I have one other point to mention. My son (now 16) was involved in an ATV/Motorcycle crash 2 years ago and received a serious hand injury. It is a valid concern of having different vehicles and types of users sharing the trails.
Just seems like really, really poor timing from a money stand point.
Oops, guess I have one other point to mention. My son (now 16) was involved in an ATV/Motorcycle crash 2 years ago and received a serious hand injury. It is a valid concern of having different vehicles and types of users sharing the trails.
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Although there's been attempts to scavenge DNR ORV funds to help with the state deficit, the trail funds are legally protected. The funds are derived from ORV users who purchase ORV stickers.
Of the $16.25 permit fee:
- .25¢ goes to the dealer/point-of-sale provider
- $1.00 goes to the ORV Safety Education Fund
- $15.00 goes in the ORV Trail Fund
From all the ORV permit fees collected, here's the allocation breakdown:
- 53.125% goes to trail maintenance
- 31.25% goes to law DNR enforcement
- 12.5% goes to trail damage restoration
- 3.125% goes to support administration of the ORV program.
Again, these are our funds, and we have a voice in influencing how the money is used.
Of the $16.25 permit fee:
- .25¢ goes to the dealer/point-of-sale provider
- $1.00 goes to the ORV Safety Education Fund
- $15.00 goes in the ORV Trail Fund
From all the ORV permit fees collected, here's the allocation breakdown:
- 53.125% goes to trail maintenance
- 31.25% goes to law DNR enforcement
- 12.5% goes to trail damage restoration
- 3.125% goes to support administration of the ORV program.
Again, these are our funds, and we have a voice in influencing how the money is used.
Glad to see the money is going where it should be, especially when I'm now buying 4 ORV permits each year.
I had heard that the snowmobile license fees have been reallocated to the general fund and little money will be available for trail grooming next year. Although I'm not a snowmobile rider, if this is true, it really is a shame.
The money collected from a specific group such as ORV permits, hunting and fishing licenses, etc. should go towards that activity.
I had heard that the snowmobile license fees have been reallocated to the general fund and little money will be available for trail grooming next year. Although I'm not a snowmobile rider, if this is true, it really is a shame.
The money collected from a specific group such as ORV permits, hunting and fishing licenses, etc. should go towards that activity.
Good point Rickshaw!! I always consider those options a "trump card" and like to play them only when essential - none the less, a VERY good thought!!
I was hoping to get over there today for the meeting but business constraints have come up... Fight the fight guys, and remember you have LOTS of us out here in support!!
Woodsy
I was hoping to get over there today for the meeting but business constraints have come up... Fight the fight guys, and remember you have LOTS of us out here in support!!
Woodsy
