- Oct 28, 2001
- 4,704
- 0
*** Update ***
Recap of the meeting…. (Sorry for the late follow-up, but it was a busy weekend).
In attendance we had RickShaw, WildBill, BigBobT, and myself. We waited for Young Ted, but suspect that he didn’t get the notice of the location change, and may have shown up at the Big Boy instead. Hopefully something else came up, and he didn’t make the trip up for nothing. The Senator was about 35 minutes late, but his assistant notified us of this, and he had a worthy excuse – reading stories to elementary school kids (awwww).
- Senator Garcia gave a brief history, overview, and his involvement with the bill. It all started around the Fall of 2002 when a friend (and district constituent) named Oliver Durham contacted the Senator about limited access for Argos to the trail system. Mr. Durham is the long-time owner of Argo World Enterprises, headquartered in Howell. Mr. Durham’s issue was that this lack of trail access was a problem for his customers, and potentially limiting his sales.
- While there are hundreds of miles of existing trails/routes available to Argos today, the majority of them are up in the UP. This is the primary complaint; not enough trails in the lower peninsula, especially the southern half. FWIW, I have to drive 2.5-3 hours to find trails myself, but I’m not asking my representative to propose a bill for closer single-track trails. Hmmmmm…. :think:
- We brought up the consideration that while Argo owners may have a legitimate complaint about lack of trail access, they are most definitely a small minority compared to all other ORV vehicle types. We pressed Senator Garcia to find out the actual number of Argo ORV users that this bill would ultimately affect and benefit. To date, it appears that this has never been researched. In a democracy, every voice should be heard, but “tyranny of the minority” comes to mind here. We asked the Senator to consider weighing the value/benefit of this bill to the effort, money, and resources required to research and implement it.
- The Sierra Club is also a vocal opponent of the bill, citing environmental concerns and trail damage. A 900 pound trail tank with 8 large wheels turning and churning up the terrain certainly has a much greater environmental impact compared to a dirt bike. Not that I’m going to be making a donation to the Sierra Club any time soon, but I can’t argue with their logic on this point.
- The Senator indicated that without the full support and backing of the DNR, the bill would not even be put to a vote by the House or Senate, as the Governor would not sign anything that was opposed by the DNR.
- We proposed 2 alternatives to SB-110:
1) As the CCC has also suggested, opening up the forest roads in the lower peninsula would provide hundreds of miles of additional access to Argos (and possibly other 2 and 4-wheeled ORVs).
2) Create new trails specifically geared for the Argos. The senator agreed (and I think that this is key) that all new trails, and all trail enhancements specifically designed for Argos, should be funded directly from fees accessed on Argo owners. We also emphasized that the vast majority of trail maintenance today is done by volunteer clubs and ORV enthusiasts. Following the trail maintenance model used today, all new trails and/or trail enhancements should be performed by Argo volunteer clubs and/or enthusiasts. The senator agreed that this makes perfect sense.
- In the end, the Senator conceded that he did not provide any guarantees to Mr. Durham on this bill, only that he would put forth a good faith effort to research it, and see if a solution could be developed that would provide better access to Argo users, while at the same time not negatively affecting the recreational use of the trail by other ORV users.
- Senator Garcia is going to provide a recap of the meeting to his assistant Brett, as well as forward on all the hardcopy documentation we provided opposing the bill. Brett is the Senator’s administrative lead on the research and preparation of this bill. Moving forward, we will be in much tighter communication with Brett regarding all aspects of this bill.
- Overall, I believe that the meeting went very well. We had an opportunity to hear the other side of the story, and get a better feel for the intent and purpose of the bill. At the same time, Senator Garcia was able to get gather some valuable feedback from the off-road enthusiasts that would be directly affected by this bill.
I may have missed some things, so for anyone else that was present, please add any additional comments.
Thanks for everyone’s continued support on this. While I’m comfortable that this bill will not be passed anytime soon, and certainly not in it’s current form, it’s nice to know that we’ve been able to provide some valuable input. If anyone is interested, I have a tape recording of the meeting that I can make available.
It was also good to finally meet BigBobT (the name belies the man) and WildBill (ditto!). RickShaw – As always, the pleasure was all yours! I hope the next time we meet we’re inhaling pre-mix and twisting through the trees!
Recap of the meeting…. (Sorry for the late follow-up, but it was a busy weekend).
In attendance we had RickShaw, WildBill, BigBobT, and myself. We waited for Young Ted, but suspect that he didn’t get the notice of the location change, and may have shown up at the Big Boy instead. Hopefully something else came up, and he didn’t make the trip up for nothing. The Senator was about 35 minutes late, but his assistant notified us of this, and he had a worthy excuse – reading stories to elementary school kids (awwww).
- Senator Garcia gave a brief history, overview, and his involvement with the bill. It all started around the Fall of 2002 when a friend (and district constituent) named Oliver Durham contacted the Senator about limited access for Argos to the trail system. Mr. Durham is the long-time owner of Argo World Enterprises, headquartered in Howell. Mr. Durham’s issue was that this lack of trail access was a problem for his customers, and potentially limiting his sales.
- While there are hundreds of miles of existing trails/routes available to Argos today, the majority of them are up in the UP. This is the primary complaint; not enough trails in the lower peninsula, especially the southern half. FWIW, I have to drive 2.5-3 hours to find trails myself, but I’m not asking my representative to propose a bill for closer single-track trails. Hmmmmm…. :think:
- We brought up the consideration that while Argo owners may have a legitimate complaint about lack of trail access, they are most definitely a small minority compared to all other ORV vehicle types. We pressed Senator Garcia to find out the actual number of Argo ORV users that this bill would ultimately affect and benefit. To date, it appears that this has never been researched. In a democracy, every voice should be heard, but “tyranny of the minority” comes to mind here. We asked the Senator to consider weighing the value/benefit of this bill to the effort, money, and resources required to research and implement it.
- The Sierra Club is also a vocal opponent of the bill, citing environmental concerns and trail damage. A 900 pound trail tank with 8 large wheels turning and churning up the terrain certainly has a much greater environmental impact compared to a dirt bike. Not that I’m going to be making a donation to the Sierra Club any time soon, but I can’t argue with their logic on this point.
- The Senator indicated that without the full support and backing of the DNR, the bill would not even be put to a vote by the House or Senate, as the Governor would not sign anything that was opposed by the DNR.
- We proposed 2 alternatives to SB-110:
1) As the CCC has also suggested, opening up the forest roads in the lower peninsula would provide hundreds of miles of additional access to Argos (and possibly other 2 and 4-wheeled ORVs).
2) Create new trails specifically geared for the Argos. The senator agreed (and I think that this is key) that all new trails, and all trail enhancements specifically designed for Argos, should be funded directly from fees accessed on Argo owners. We also emphasized that the vast majority of trail maintenance today is done by volunteer clubs and ORV enthusiasts. Following the trail maintenance model used today, all new trails and/or trail enhancements should be performed by Argo volunteer clubs and/or enthusiasts. The senator agreed that this makes perfect sense.
- In the end, the Senator conceded that he did not provide any guarantees to Mr. Durham on this bill, only that he would put forth a good faith effort to research it, and see if a solution could be developed that would provide better access to Argo users, while at the same time not negatively affecting the recreational use of the trail by other ORV users.
- Senator Garcia is going to provide a recap of the meeting to his assistant Brett, as well as forward on all the hardcopy documentation we provided opposing the bill. Brett is the Senator’s administrative lead on the research and preparation of this bill. Moving forward, we will be in much tighter communication with Brett regarding all aspects of this bill.
- Overall, I believe that the meeting went very well. We had an opportunity to hear the other side of the story, and get a better feel for the intent and purpose of the bill. At the same time, Senator Garcia was able to get gather some valuable feedback from the off-road enthusiasts that would be directly affected by this bill.
I may have missed some things, so for anyone else that was present, please add any additional comments.
Thanks for everyone’s continued support on this. While I’m comfortable that this bill will not be passed anytime soon, and certainly not in it’s current form, it’s nice to know that we’ve been able to provide some valuable input. If anyone is interested, I have a tape recording of the meeting that I can make available.
It was also good to finally meet BigBobT (the name belies the man) and WildBill (ditto!). RickShaw – As always, the pleasure was all yours! I hope the next time we meet we’re inhaling pre-mix and twisting through the trees!
