Incident in Surrey BC, Canada.

[teamgrizzly]

Everybody read this.

This is in regards to an incident at a gravel pit in Surrey BC. The area was shared by off-road riders and horesback riders. Incidents like this are avoidable. Stupidity can wreck relationships that are needed between outdoor user groups. Relationships that are essential to keep our access to our riding areas. We need to create a unified front between all outdoor user groups against people trying to close our areas. I really suggest all riders become more accomodating to other users and take the time to educate the stupid.

Otherwise enjoy a "RIDING AREA CLOSED" sign posted at your favorite spot.

Mike / Team Grizzly

---- Letter Follows ----

Dear Back Country Horsemen (and women) of BC,

Thank you for forwarding information on this incident to us.

As a representative of the membership of the PNWMA , my sincere apologies go out to Debi and her horse Jaz. Marion, please pass on our best wishes for a speedy recovery.

I hope this horserider/motorcyclist incident can be resolved in due time. It is stupid behavior like this that gives our sport a black eye. We will do everything we can to try to identify the rider that caused this incident, and make him/her accountable for their behavior.

If you would like to discuss this incident, or any other matter, please don't hesitate to call.

Yours truly,

David Lock
President, PNWMA (Pacific North West Motorcycle Association) www.pnwma.com
Yarrow, B.C.
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Subject: RE: [bchbc] harassment

Hi everyone,

Below is a letter from a Back Country Horseman of BC member. Some idiot kid (whose dad has horses, as per the letter) deliberately spooked a horse & injured the rider.

A very similar incident occurred on Vedder Mountain last year, and caused undue stress between the horseriders and the dirtbikers. Please pass this letter on to anyone else you know who rides, as a reminder how much damage a fraction of a second dumb decision can inflict on our sport.

If you have an idea of who this individual is, please email me in confidence.

If you see a horse ahead, shut your bike off, and push it past the horse. They are grateful for our cooperation.

Thanks for your help,

David Lock
President, PNWMA

-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: [bchbc] harassment

Hi Larri

Thanks for inquiring about Debi, she is still off her feet but is better today, looks like she may have shifted her pelvic but no breaks, as per x rays.

We were riding at the gravel pit on 28th ave and 192 Street, All was quiet at first when we took the horses into the trail around the pit. Debi and I heard some bikes in a distance but knew as long as Jaz could see them all would be ok.

Three bikes came into the trail beside the pit, we motioned them to approach slowly and as quiet as possible, the first one did well, the second one also, the third one was doing ok - then seemed to decide to hell with it and gunned it and took off, infront of Jaz. Dirt flying and all.

Jaz spooked at that point and in turn spooked Misty and decide to flee - all was well as Debi got Jaz under control as she is a very experience rider. Misty fled but only because Jaz did, but I stopped her also.

At that point we had no problem, we were just pissed and the other two bikers stayed put, then the second one left also.

Deb hollered to me to dismount as we didn't know what may happen if he came back. I didn't dismount right away as I was calming Misty some what. Just as Debi was half off of Jaz to get down - the biker came back and did it again - but this time Jaz couldn't see where it was and of course spooked again. At that point, since Debi was half off Jaz - she bolted and tossed Debi at the same time, Debi landed on her hip and knocked her almost out. Jaz then bolted straight into Misty's butt and then continued - she disappeared.

Misty wanted to follow but I stopped her as I was still full in the saddle. When I turned around to see where Debi was as I could see Jaz racing by with no rider, She was on the ground back a bit. So I rode up to her and jumped off, she was out of breathe as it knocked the wind out of her as well, she could barely stand, but her adreneline was just so high, I assisted her up with Misty's help she started to walk with me towards locating Jaz.

Shortly the first biker came walking towards us as he saw everything, he drove his bike over the gravel pit to where Jaz was and caught her, and walked her back to us.

After speaking with him for a bit, he didn't understand why his "friend" did that, as his father had horses, he knew what to do to catch Jaz and we waited but his friend didn't return. Good thing we were on the ground as another biker came racing out of the forest blindly and again Jaz didn't like it. But once this guy saw the horses he slowed down and went to the other side of pit so that we could walk our horses out of the forest back to trailer. At this point Debi felt nothing - she was too mad.

Debi tried to walk Jaz out by leaning on her neck but Jaz was wanting to walk fast - so she took Misty's neck instead to walk out and I Jaz, Jaz didn't want to walk out behind me, she wanted to walk in front of me, it was a struggle to keep her from stepping on my toes. I was out of breathe by that time, so I think Jaz was still a little skitty. Every bike noise Jaz turned and looked but seemed to trust where we were taking them.

Once back at the trailer and the horses safe inside, Debi sat down again, but this time couldn't walk - so that is when I decided to get her to emerge in Langley. Now thats another story, lasting about 7 hours at the hospital,

I think she will be ok, I took her home and stayed there with her, but she wasn't able to climb the stairs to bed - even the perkecet they gave her didn't put her to sleep for very long.

Got to go now but Thanks for asking. I stupidly didn't get the guys name but am thinking of returning there to find out if I can locate the guy that helped us, as he would know the name of this idiot that started it all. Anyone out there who wishes to accompany me on Saturday, welcome as I am deteremined to find him and you know whats next.

Dency

 

[Michelle]

I hope they find the idiot. I could possibly understand the first time, maybe losing control or the plot or something, but deliberately buzzing the horses? Stupid.

We're forever running into horses, but get on pretty well with most of the riders. Some even come just to watch the bikes get stuck in bogs or something, I dunno, they just wave you past, even if you've turned the bike off. Never figured that one out. The real skittery ones shouldn't be out anywhere near us, but there is the odd one. We just make sure it's well passed before continuing on & that we're not headed in the same direction.

As far as I'm concerned, a horse rider has right of way, because I can control the bike, I'm not sure the rider can control the horse with the sound of a bike. When I was real young, 6 or 7, I remember we got a phone call saying the daughter of a friend of the family had been killed. Someone drove past her on the road & honked. The driver didn't realise Karen was trying to get the horse used to road noise (quiet road, not much traffic) & she got thrown. That is a memory that will be with me till the day I die. I never knew Karen - she was about 15/16 when she died - but her death I knew all about.

btw, I'd take out David's phone number. Please keep us updated if you can as to whether the idiot gets caught or not.
Michelle
p.s I hope the rider heals quickly & doesn't hold this against all of us. The horse will, for quite some time, I'd imagine, but hopefully he can forgive us.

 

[bbbom]

Sounds like your club is handling the incident very well. Hopefully they can find out who it was that caused the problem and the horseback rider will recover well.

We always stop & kill the engine for the horses around here both to protect the horseback rider and to keep from getting kicked or struck by a spooked horse!

 

[yz250roost]

sad incident, but I did get a small chuckle upon reading that Jaz ran into Misty's butt and then continued-she disappeared.

 

[MikeT]

Whenever we would come up on horses, we would hit the kill switch as fast as we saw them. The people on horseback loved that. I never want a horse getting spooked by me because you can't shut them off.

 

[Camstyn]

Wasn't me!! :scream:

Whoever did that is a real punk, I hope he gets caught. Horses are dangerous enough without someone intentionally trying to spook them.

 

[sfc crash]

it didn't take a moto head zooming by to spook our horses, i got tossed all the time.horses bite too,and kick, yeh don't forget that. maybe the kid on the bike just needs a beating, that's all. do you guys, you canucks, do ya do that, just dole out a beating once in a while? i think that might be a good solution.

 

[Camstyn]

I'm sure a lot of us would like to accomodate him with a beating, if we knew who he was. :|

 

[limitless]

I'm inclined to agree with Mr. Crash here, beat dat a$$!!

 

[teamgrizzly]

Beat the kid up? Well it sounds like fun. I'd say strap him to a skittish horse. But really we should just try to educate all the punk kids so they can be enlightend riders like ourselves. (Otherwise we'll have to do a LOT of beating because there are a LOT of idiots out there.)

Mike

But a good b*tch slapping now and again might be a good way to get a point across. :)

 

[JTT]

Well done with handling the situation! It is unfortunate the there are so many dumba**es out there, but maybe incidents like this will make a few of them think, just a little, before acting.

 

[Ol'89r]

Originally posted by teamgrizzly

But a good b*tch slapping now and again might be a good way to get a point across. :) [/B]

Mike.

My wife was working her 17 hand jumper in her arena one day when one of the local kids came by on his dirt bike, completly tapped. Scared the hell out of the horse. Well, I jumped on my bike and ran the lil' bugger down. Found out who he was and talked to his parents.

His mom suggested that we decide his punishment. My wife suggested that he get on her horse and I would ride up behind him on my dirt bike. :scream: The kid about freaked. Looking up at that big hores, he got visibly upset and said he would do anything but that.

We didn't make him get on the horse, but we really got his attention. He has grown up a little now and has become one of my riding buddies. Oh yeah, and he respects the hell out of horses. :laugh:

When you find the kid, just put him on the biggest horse ya got. :thumb:

 

[Erick82]

If your horse is scared of engines and dirt bikes and you can't controll the horse, you should not be on a trail that allows dirt bikes. I am not saying that the dirt bike rider is not partially at fault as well, but to say the horse rider is not equally at fault is wrong as well. You should know the animal you are riding and what his tendancies are before you take him to a public riding area that allows dirt bikes.

 

[Neil Wig]

Erick82, that's a narrow minded approach.
The horse didn't have a problem with bikes being ridden responsibly. The kid intentionally spooked the horse...twice. The horse back riders in our area have the sence to pull off the trail when they hear us coming, and we shut down as soon as we see them. It's a good, mutual relationship. What this kid did would land him in civil court in the US.
In my opinion, the police should be contacted, and the kid charged with reckless endangerment, assault with a weapon, or something similar. The woman could have been killed by this stupid kid.

 

[Erick82]

"I heard some bikes in a distance but knew as long as Jaz could see them all would be ok."

He knew ahead of time that his horse was scared of bikes.

"Just as Debi was half off of Jaz to get down - the biker came back and did it again - but this time Jaz couldn't see where it was and of course spooked again."

He again admits that the horse will spook if it does not see the rider. I wasn't there so i don't know the details or thoughts of the dirt bike rider maybe he got lost or somthing and that is why he came back.

"Good thing we were on the ground as another biker came racing out of the forest blindly and again Jaz didn't like it."

Another example, this horse should not be in this area. I am not saying what the kid did was ok, but this is only based on the point of view of the horse rider not the bike rider.

 

[Ol'89r]

Originally posted by Erick82
You should know the animal you are riding and what his tendancies are before you take him to a public riding area that allows dirt bikes. [/B]

Erick82.

Obviously, you know very little about horses. A horse is a very large animal with a very small brain. They do everything out of fear. Their first instinct is to turn and run from anything they don't understand. Anything that supprises them like motorcycles, blowing plastic trash bags, falling tree limbs, loud noises, etc, etc, etc.

You can have the best trained horse and it can still react in this way if it is scared. Chances are, on trails where horses and motorcycles share the trail, if one would have the right of way, it would be the horse.

We have to learn to share the trails and show each other a little respect. We always stop, take our helmets off and greet the horseback riders face to face when they come by. They really appreciate this and tell us so.

An attitude like yours is what gets riding areas closed to motorcycles. :|

 

[sfc crash]

An attitude like yours is what gets riding areas closed to motorcycles

easy ol89, erick is not the on who did this. i saw alot of the points he made in the post. plus, being a horse man i thought it a bit strange that a totally spooked horse could be rounded up by a guy on a motorcycle. he would have to ride into the general area, then stop the bike and be able to approach and control the horse.we used to have to be real careful with some of our mounts, and be proactive. i wouldn't ride next to the rail road tracks if there was anychance of a train, and keep my eye up and down the track. if a train was spotted, i would have to get my thoroughbred a good 150-200 yds away.i'm all for bikes and horses sharing the same area.there is some amount of responsibility on the riders part tho.for instance, you just got finished racing the barrells, your horse is wired and you're riding back to your trailer area, famlies and lil kids are all over the place. if you got a horse who you know spokes easilly, and some 5 year old comes running out from behind a pick up truck chasing and screaming at his buddy and your horse spooks, then tears through the area trampling some one. who's to blame. if this kid did what was said he's truely and idiot, but a kid riding by, spooking your horse so much that you have to get off, but he doubles back before you could dismount? man i don't know. people are poeple, and sometimes people use hyperbole to make a point.

 

[Ol'89r]

Hey Sarge. I wasn't baggin on Eric, I was only trying to enlighten him a little.

Just like we take new riders on trail with us, a group of horse riders may have a new rider with a green horse with their group. Even a well trained horse can spook. Over the years I have caught several horses for people that got tossed. I have even ridden a couple of injured horse riders out of the forest on the back of my XR. I really don't see anything strange about the guy on the bike rounding up the horse. We used to have a rental stable close by our house and the owners would call me when someone came back without their horse. Or the horse came back without the rider.

If you own horses, then you know they are very expensive to own. Many of the people that own and ride them are fairly well to do. (Not me.) Many of them sit on the City Council or County government. These are the people that make the decisions about land use, riding areas, etc.

If we piss these people off, WE WILL LOSE. :(

Like it or not, we have to show these people all the respect we can. They hold most of the cards so, it doesn't really matter who is right or who is wrong.

 

[sfc crash]

i'm with ya. i don't own any longer. dirtbiking is cheaper and less work. :thumb:

 

[Ol'89r]

Originally posted by sfc crash
dirtbiking is cheaper and less work. :thumb:

Boy, I gotta agree with that one. :thumb: Owning a horse is like having a motorcycle that you can never shut the engine off. :scream: Ya gotta keep feedin it and cleanin up the spooge, even when it's parked in the barn. :laugh: :laugh:

 

[XRpredator]

agreed, Sarge. While a horse would be cool and all, I don't have the time to deal with them right now. Like someone said before, I can ignore my dirtbike for months on end and it won't die on me.

Dang ol' hayburners anyway ;)

On another note, that little Rick with a silent P needs to be taught a lesson. What a tool!

 

[Erick82]

Ol'89r I am not trying to beat a dead horse here, but I feal trail ediquate and riding responsible is up to both parties not just dirt bikers. You are right I don't know anything about horses, but if they are as crazy and skidish as you make them sound then sharing trails at the same time with them might not be the best option.

 

[XRpredator]

generally, horses have the right-of-way. That's just how the laws got laid out when the horseless carriages started showing up. Mostly because they are skittish! It's kinda like yielding to the pedestrians in the crosswalk, just the right thing to do.

Horse people are like ATV people. We all gotta get along to keep all the riding areas open.

 

[MX-727]

Pred hit the high point in the trail etiquette issue.&nbsp; A major tennant of the tread lightly program is that right of way issue.&nbsp; The horse vs. motorcycle issue is important enough that it is addressed in the Blue Ribbon Coalition's Code of Ethics.&nbsp; Check out number eleven: http://www.sharetrails.org/index.cfm?page=27

I teach the Utah OHV class, and we also address the right of way.&nbsp; Motorcyclist are dead last behind horses, hikers and bicyclist, in that order.&nbsp; It makes sense.&nbsp; The least maneuverable gets the right of way.

As an aside, it's the same with aviation, least maneuverable gets the right-of-way.

 

[limitless]

eric - What if you had a horse and no land to take him out on and the next closest place is 4-5 hours away (w/o motorcycles)? What would you do? You would ride with the bikes. That kid had no right to do that and if you think different... Well, then you're stupid! I don't own horses, but you have to understand they are "uncontrolable" in high stress situations. They will always do what they believe to be nessesary to survive, just like humans. It's called instinct! You don't think you should have to share the trails? Well, it's that attitude thats gives the whole sport a bad name!

You should know the animal you are riding and what his tendancies are before you take him to a public riding area that allows dirt bikes.

then you quote him saying HE KNEW jaz's "tendancies"..... you dont make sense he knew that he would be cool if the bikers were civil, but they wern't..... It was totally his fault(the biker), even his friends knew that he was wrong!!