Interesting article about S.Cal Fires

[JPIVEY]

San Diego County instituted the first Multiple Species Habitat
Conservation Program (MSHCP) in the nation about 10 years ago.

The MSHCP was supposed to provide "islands of connected habitat" to
"preserve a rich diversity of sensitive flora and fauna". By some
counts, San Diego County has the highest number of plants, animals,
birds, and reptiles in the threatened and endangered species list.

The corner stone of the MSHCP is (or was) the Mission Trails Regional
Park. This "park" connected pocket of habitat from the mountains to
the coast. This same "park" is the corridor that allowed the fire to
progress rapidly through residential and industrial areas; claiming
untold millions in property damage and human life. While this news
report cites eight deaths due to the fire, updated reports have
attributed eleven deaths.

The grand MSHCP "preserve" is now charred lands.

Of note, the fire fighting capacity of San Diego was seriously
diminished as many fire fighting unite from San Diego County were
sent to fight the equally devastating fires in the Los
Angles-Riverside-San Bernardino area. That area received aggressive
fire fighting capability to keep the fires out of the draught
stricken forests that are full of beetle killed trees.

The forests were under a delayed fuels reduction program that has
been delayed by the preservationist groups.

So, on two fronts, preservation minded actions have resulted in
millions of dollars in property damage and loss of human life.

When is enough enough? When is reason and sanity going to prevail
over the insanity of preservationists?


This will make 3 yrs in a row that the Western U.S has suffered loss of life, not to mention property because of their Enviro policies.

I agree when is enough, enough

 

[XRpredator]

Imagine that. The actions of environmentalist extremists backfiring . . . :|

 

[biglou]

I've already forgotten who it was, but Hannity had a congressman/senator on his show this afternoon who spoke of the exact same thing. The enviro-nazis have taken the authority to manage the forest systems away from those who are educated in how to best do so-the park rangers.

As a side note, immediately after that phone call, was another congressman, from Long Island, on the phone flying back from Baghdad. He said he was told by one of the Army reporters that the American media has their blood on their hands due to the biased reporting coming from them. He said you would think you were in Manhattan driving through downtown Baghdad. People smiling, traffic jams, markets open. You know, everyday life? Unfortunately, the liberal media and the Democratic Presidential candidates have just latched onto every single negative incident, no matter how relatively insignificant, and are doing nothing but underminding US interests and aiding terroists. Bastages... :|

 

[Senior KX Rider]

Originally posted by BigLou
Unfortunately, the liberal media and the Democratic Presidential candidates have just latched onto every single negative incident, no matter how relatively insignificant, and are doing nothing but underminding US interests and aiding terroists. Bastages... :|

Well said my friend :thumb:

 

[bsmith]

Are you saying we should pave it all?

 

[JPIVEY]

I have yet to hear of one person coming back from Iraq say anything negitive about what's going on there, it's all the " Bastages" ( thanks Lou ) that have an agenda at home mouthing off.


What that have to do with this topic ???, who the hell cares, but it pisses me off also.

 

[Pokie]

...so how come the non-liberal press does not do any better? I have sent the question to FNC, MSNBC and CNN asking to show us the daily life in the cities and give us a smattering of what the locals see on their TVs..... wonder why no answer?

 

[andymstevens]

Originally posted by Pokie
...so how come the non-liberal press does not do any better? I have sent the question to FNC, MSNBC and CNN asking to show us the daily life in the cities and give us a smattering of what the locals see on their TVs..... wonder why no answer?

If it would make Rupert Murdoch some money, they might show it.

 

[ktmboy]

Originally posted by bsmith
Are you saying we should pave it all?

 

No, but quit trying to 'save' it all of the time. If the natural burns had been allowed before the forest had gotten so overgrown the fires would have been managable.

 

[JPIVEY]

And if they had allowed the logging of the dead trees it would have been knocked down by now.


Enviromentalist didn't start the fire, but they are solely responsible for the amount of damage caused here and in San Diego

 

[bsmith]

On 2nd thought

 

[bclapham]

Jim:

can you post this on proride or put a link to the story- i am sure the locals would be interested to read this

thanks

Bruce

 

[JPIVEY]

Done Bruce, boy I havn't seen Proride in forever

 

[biglou]

Originally posted by BigLou
Unfortunately, the liberal media and the Democratic Presidential candidates have just latched onto every single negative incident, no matter how relatively insignificant, and are doing nothing but underminding US interests and aiding terroists. Bastages... :|

Related case in point (back onto the subject)... Click. Gee, do ya think the environazis would have actually let anyone help remove dead and dying trees/brush without months/years of court battles and millions of dollars spent for same? Probably not, and it's the norm nowadays, as mentioned by the senator I can't remember (danged short-term mem loss...). Anywho, the point is the angle chosen here. "Bush Denies...." Not, "Enviros Would Blockade if Bush Were to Help Anyway..."

 

[JPIVEY]

This is what pisses me off here, Davis,Boxer and Feinstein ARE the ones behind this, they are in Bed with every single enviromental group out here, they are the biggest contributors to there elections.

Davis just signed over $140,000,000.00 to preserve some wetlands in a time when we have no money.

Boxer is a big on Wilderness preservation.

Feinstein, who the **** knows what she does.


The Eviros want to stop something, the 3 of them are driving the bandwagon.

A healthy forest plan is 25-50 trees per 43,560 sf of land, we have because of their forest management plan 250+ trees and 1 in 3 are dead from bark beetles.

Davis want's to blame Bush for this, the same way he blamed Bush for our money Problems

****en puss, can't take responsibility for nothing

 

[JPIVEY]

I'm not done yet;

Davis, Boxer and Feinstein appoint the judges who just happen to be envrio extremist and will support every lawsuit to block either access to land or to enlarge protected areas based on BS enviro reports that is put in front of them

 

[JPIVEY]

Done..............................I think

 

[bclapham]

not once youve read this....(from proride)

State firefighters rejected air drop request for Cedar Fire because of night regulations

(10-30) 23:43 PST SAN DIEGO (AP) --

The first helicopter pilot to see the patch of flames that would become the catastrophic Cedar Fire radioed for aerial water drops, but state firefighters rejected his request because it came minutes after such flights had been grounded for the night.

Within hours, the flames cascaded out of control and killed 13 residents between the mountains east of San Diego and the city. It eventually became the largest wildfire in California history.

Southern California was already besieged by flames Saturday evening when the San Diego County Sheriff's helicopter went to search for a lost hunter who allegedly lit a beacon fire.

Pilot Dave Weldon told The Associated Press on Thursday that he saw state firefighting planes on a nearby airstrip as he approached the mountains at 110 mph. He called down for help because his dispatcher had relayed reports of smoke in the area, but he got no response.

That was around 5:45 p.m. A few minutes later, he spotted smoke from the fire, then only about 50 yards on each side and not spreading.

As he steadied his helicopter against wind gusts, Weldon's concern mounted. Just before landing, he called for backup, asking another county helicopter to speed to the scene with its 120-gallon water dump bucket. And he urged the dispatcher to contact state firefighters and renew his request for air tankers.

The problem was that under state safety guidelines, no flights can go up into waning daylight. On Saturday, the cutoff was 5:36 p.m., said California Department of Forestry Capt. Ron Serabia, who coordinates the 12 tankers and 10 helicopters now battling the 272,000-acre blaze.

The sun set that day at 6:05 p.m.

The helicopter with the dump bucket flew within five miles of the fire, before state officials told it to turn back, Weldon said. The air tankers never took off. Weldon was told crews would attack the fire in the morning.

"We were basically just offering our assistance fighting their fire, and they turned it down," said Weldon, who with his partner delivered the hunter to law enforcement officials who cited him for setting an unauthorized fire. "I was frustrated about it, but I wasn't surprised."

Weldon said the county helicopter wouldn't have been allowed to drop water after dark and said that it alone couldn't have done the job, but he thought a well-placed drop from the air tanker might have extinguished the flames.

On Thursday, California's top fire official said he was not aware of the events and cited state night-flight restrictions.

"If the air tankers and helicopters cannot safely fly based on daylight, they cannot respond," said Ray Snodgrass, chief deputy director of the CDF. "We certainly don't want to kill any pilots."

The call from the county dispatcher came minutes after pilots had left the airstrip in Ramona for the night, Serabia said.

Serabia was off Saturday, but said that if word had arrived sooner, a plane could have dropped 3,200 gallons of chemical retardant within eight minutes. What's more, pilots might have slipped in a second flight because once a plane is engaged, it can fly up to 30 minutes after cutoff.

"The aircraft would have been able to suppress the fire, or at least hold it in check," Serabia said.

Still, he said hindsight was pointless.

"It's easy to say 'What if we did this,' or 'What if we did that,"' said Serabia, a 35-year veteran firefighter. "I'm not going to second-guess it. That's what we have to live with -- what happened, what transpired from that point after cutoff."

The rules may help save pilots, but they were cold comfort to the son of one man who died hours after the county helicopter was called off.

Stephen Shacklett was killed shortly after 3 a.m. Sunday when he tried to race away from the flames in his motor home.

Told of Saturday evening's events in the air, his son was incredulous on Thursday.

"The hugest fire in California history," said Stephen Shacklett Jr., "and they had a chance to put it out."

 

[bclapham]

more from proride about feinstein, apparently, she was one of the main people that was against logging etc in the forests and after the biggest fire in history has made a rather convenient U-turn.

From the OC Register:
Senate passes bill to thin forests; Feinstein assures it's not a blank check for loggers.

As fires raged across Southern California, the U.S. Senate passed a landmark forest-management bill Thursday that proponents said will help avert similar conflagrations on 20 million acres of federal land.

"This event has truly been a wake-up call, and I hope that we learn how critical it is to manage our lands to ensure that catastrophic fires like these can be prevented," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., a sponsor of the law.

On an 80-14 late-night vote, the Senate allocated $760 million - a $340 million increase - to clear undergrowth and deadwood and to thin dense tree stands as a way of reducing wildfires like those that have charred more than 744,000 acres in Southern California.

 

[JPIVEY]

Originally posted by bclapham
On an 80-14 late-night vote, the Senate allocated $760 million - a $340 million increase - to clear undergrowth and deadwood and to thin dense tree stands as a way of reducing wildfires like those that have charred more than 744,000 acres in Southern California.

*** Damnit, were the **** was this money when it was asked for 2 yrs ago.


They could have turned this over to logging companies, cleared the dead trees and let the logging companies make the money off it, now it's going to cost almost a billion dollars to save 30% of a forest that is now 80% burnt and gone for the next 25 yrs.

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG !!!!!!!


I'm livid

 

[XRpredator]

Originally posted by JPIVEY
I'm livid

I'm glad I'm in Idaho instead of California

 

[bsmith]

I'm sure loggers don't make money on dead trees.
But now they will make even more on a government job.

 

[JPIVEY]

Originally posted by bsmith

I'm sure loggers don't make money on dead trees.

Maybe not much in the way of building material, but everything from chemicals to paper products could have been had.

Now all they have is Bouquets, buy stock in Kingsford

 

[bh]

The government shouldn't be against the logging think how much money they would make from taxes!

 

[JPIVEY]

It's not the Goverment, as a matter for fact , this Admin is behind logging, but local goverments, Like So Cal, that are run by far left enviro nuts do object.

And when I said logging, I really didn't mean just dead trees, I meant Logging, as in Harvesting, as in getting the forest back to a exceptable and healthy environment, like I said we have here 250-500 trees pre acre, it should be 25-50 trees, 1 out of 3 of those 250-500 are dead, so that would mean clear some healthy trees for the overall health of the forest.


A little side note; Two local congressmen begged the state to declare this a emergency and they were denied, this was back in Jan. 03; just recently Davis handed over $140,000,000.00 to preserve some wetlands for the environmentist