just doesn't run the way it should

FlashBurn · Mar 22, 2002

I may have missed this in the other posts but the pipe you bought is a torque pipe.The fmf 30 is a rev pipe.The 35 pipe is known for going a little flat on top but it gives you more stump pulling power .I have a 220 with the same exact carb jets and reeds and needle setting but the 220 carb is a 33mm.I purposely put the torque pipe on my bike.I wanted the extra grunt and it allows me to run a taller gear set so I don't lose to much top end.The pipe you have may not put the power where you want it.

Mike

dirtdevil · Mar 29, 2002

Snow melted and was able to take the bike out for a quick ride yeaterday. I pulled the power reeds out and ran the bike with the FMF K35 pipe just the snorkel off the air box. Jetting was 45 pilot 155 main stock R1174K needle in the 3rd from the top clip position. Alltitude was 1000 ft humidity 47% and temperature was 50 degress. The bog and lack of pulling power in 5th and 6th went away. Did a plug chop and down in the insultaor the color was light tan. Bike ran really good, it had a quick snap off idle and pulled well. Next step is to try to understand why the power reeds made the bike bog down in high gear. Did I install them wrong?? anything is possible. Hoppfully over this weekend I will be able to get out and do some riding and testing. I'll let you know. I would like to thank everyone for there posts so far, since all the information has been helpful in getting me to think of what possibly was happening and how to attempt a solution to the problem.

agitt73 · Mar 29, 2002

you could have ben to lean in the colder temps

canyncarvr · Mar 29, 2002

agitt: dd's first post said

Riding is at 1000 ft elevation with about 50% humitity and 60 deg temp.

..so if it's light tan now (50º), all other things being equal it would have been a bit richer.

dd: My bike has the exact same symptom (weak in 5&6) if I don't rejet for a 15-20º drop.

I'm back to the reed cage ;) ...........

Whatever it is, you'll get it. You're taking the correct approach to the whole thing. Good method!!

acutemp · Mar 29, 2002

Reed Stops

dirtdevil,
Did you reinstall the stock reed stops instead of the strips that come with the reeds? Just a thought, good luck with your bike.--Dan

gooby · Mar 29, 2002

i mentioned earlier that i normaly run a 155/42or 45 for 75 deg give/take.in ny it was like 35/40 in the am today got to about 50 here so i put the 160/48 for today cause i worry.ran great,i tune to temp changes .i mean if it was 65 out i wouldn't but anything more i change it, better safe......only takes a minute to change jets,even less to blow er up.

dirtdevil · Apr 11, 2002

back at it again. I removed all the aftermarket parts off the 2002 and have the 2001 and 2002 bikes identical clip 2nd from top 155 main 45 pilot airscrew about 1 1/8 out. The 2001 has a faster throttle responds and runs great. The 2002 has a slighly slower throttle responds and does the following if i can explain it. When you back off the throttle on the 2002 it keeps ringing on kind of like ding ding ding. the plug is a nice light tan color on the 2001 with a third gear half throttle plug chop and the 2002 is slightly black. So, I swapped carbs, put the 2001 carb on the 2002 and she ripps?? same exact bike fresh air cleaner in both. any thoughts out there? There seems to be some kind of problem with the 2002 carb or difference. By the way I also checked the float on the 2002 and it was ok.

agitt73 · Apr 11, 2002

there could be an air passage clogged
i would take the dealer up on the warrenty
and ty to get a differant carb though

canyncarvr · Apr 12, 2002

dirtdevil:
Dang...you ARE keeping after this. I commend your persistence.

I thought the carbs were the same on those two models. Maybe there is a difference (as you said). Does anything internal look different? Same slide#? Jet screen looks to be the same height (that's been a difference in some PWKs before..would make the 'same' jetting run different)?

You're description of the sound the newer bike makes should mean something..but I don't recall what it is. Sorry :(

I can't imagine a dealer changing a carb for you. Amaze me with a 'Yes they did and it works great' response!!

I'll ponder the situation during the timber mtn hare scramble tomorrow ;)

dirtdevil · Apr 12, 2002

Canyncarvr, I changed the carbs myself and left the slides with the needle on the bikes, so that takes the slide and needles out of the picture. I opened up the carb last night on the 2002 and checked every hole to ensure that there was no blockage, everything looked ok. I actually pinned the jets to see what size they were in thousands, but I think that there in half thousands and very precise. One interesting note, I took the original pilot 48 jets and pinned them one took a .017 and would not accept a .018. The other 48 pilot took the .018 but was tight. So there could be a difference in the machining of the jets. I ordered another 45 pilot to replace the 45 that is presently in the bike with the thought that the jet is not to standard and machined oversize. I also ordered a 42 to also try they should be in within a week. The though with the 42 is that there is some machineing difference in the carb. Then it will be off to the dearler to push Kawasaki into getting me another Carb, bike is off warranty since Feb 2002.

canyncarvr · Apr 15, 2002

I don't know this to be so...but in light of four different engines coming from kawi supposedly to account for machining tolerances (the a,b,c,d markings on cylinder and head), there may be as much of a difference from piece to piece in a keihin, too?

Still, with as much performance diff as you could expect from the different engines (none, I would think)..it doesn't seem reasonable that a small difference in a pilot jet would matter. But then, a 1/16 turn of the AS on my bike can make a night and day difference (sorry O&S)...all the way up to how well 3rd gear pulls, and a 10º temp change is certainly noticeable.

Given a handful of the same model/year bike, I'm sure there would be differences between them. Didn't most of the 'problem' go away when you changed reeds back to 'normal'? Are you still of the mind that the keihin is 'wrong'...or just 'different'?

Maybe a good excuse to send the carb off to ron (RB Designs). He does some cleanup in the jet screen/needle jet (different from the jet needle) area. That might: 1. Fix the problem, 2. Make it so much different you wouldn't notice it anymore!! ;)

Good Luck!

OLD-N-SLOW · Apr 15, 2002

Nothing to be sorry for! Next ride I am going to take time to work with the
air screw more seriously. Maybe I missed somthing,(Gee, like that never happens) :confused: I think this thread proves that one setting is not perfect
for every bike, close maybe, but not right.
Dirtdevil, I feel your pain, must be getting very frustrating. Wish I could be of more help, but keep at it you'll get it. Might change the float and needle,
not to costly and would remove that as a possible problem.
Steve

70 marlin · Apr 15, 2002

darned if i do darned if I don't

when I picked up my bike the 99, she was jetted 155/45 stock needle center clip, 36mm carb 40:1 yam 2r and had the most hill climbing power ever. but fouled plugs very easliy on the trail's! so I dropped down to a 145/42 cel needle center clip, now the bike is very trailerable, never fouls a plug. nice dark tan plug. but when I'm doing "major" hill climbing she just dose'nt seem to have as much power? the cel gave me a major hit right when I want it! the plug is still nice and tan after climbing. just seems short on power? I rather be short on power than fouling plug on the trails like it use to! anybody ever seen this? :think:

acutemp · Apr 15, 2002

Marlin,
Try a bigger main jet, it sounds like you are lean at wfo. A 150 would be a good place to start along with a 40 pilot. IMO--Dan

canyncarvr · Apr 15, 2002

'70 Marlin:
What you describe is a fact of everyday riding pretty much. I have yet to get a jetting sequence that does everything perfectly. Best power choice will give me a 4-stroking blurb after a fair downhill; set to 'no blurbing' and it will be weaker when I want it most.

I can change from one situation to the other with an AS tweak. I'm not kidding about the 1/16 turn, either.

Don't foul plugs, though. It's not that serious.

Run your plug (it's a '7', right?) at .030. NOT what the manual says.
Are you running the stock lighting coil?

OLD-N-SLOW · Apr 15, 2002

Marlin,
What dan said. I bet that with the 42 pilot and cel needle it 4 stokes a lot at
low speed. I use a 35 pilot and it 4-stokes a little but goes away under load.
When trail riding, IMO, the pilot will foul the plug because of very little wfo
riding. So maybe a 150-152 main and 38-40 pilot with cel-3.
Steve
P.S. The cel needle is fun aint it!! Thanx JD!!

70 marlin · Apr 15, 2002

still running 8's this is the first that I've heard about 7's? I would like to hear more???

canyncarvr · Apr 17, 2002

Marlin:
You're referring to plugs, I presume? The first you've heard of running a 7 heat range plug?

I thought just about everyone ran 7s in the newer kdx series.

Anyway..you should. The 7 will run considerably cleaner, cuz it will run the engine hotter...say around 25º or so. The general idea is that plug choice is 'safe' from kawi just as jetting is...but not optimal. The heat range the engine operates in when using a 7 is closer to what it should be than an 8 is. And heat is important in 2-strokes considering pressure wave harmonics. All other things being equal, a 2-stroke running in a 'proper' heat range will make considerably more power than one running cooler than 'proper'.

(std disclaimer applies to all..imo, I think, imHo, etc)

Oh..I don't think you'll find a BR7ES. I haven't, anyway. Just a B7ES (no 'r'). Don't worry about it. Unless you run an EV (fine wire) series? The 8-to-7 thing still applies.

Check your jetting sequence if you change plug heat range.

dirtdevil · Apr 17, 2002

Well, still waiting for new jets to come in from the dealership. Hopefully by the end of the week, so I can check out another 45 pilot and try a 42 if needed. I'll keep you posted on my progress

70 marlin · Apr 18, 2002

dirtdevil: you should be ordering from sudco! 1-323-728-5407 there in Cal. they'll save you ton cash.

canyncarvr: I'll need a BR7ES for club rides, some of the team rider's get a little bent when there intercom starts poping. from none resistor plug's

dirtdevil · Apr 18, 2002

I think your right (70 Marlin) I almost dropped to the floor when I saw the order slip for $10 a jet. I even approached the dearship parts man and gave him a bunch of bla bla over the price. The dearlership indicated that they would adjust the price when the jets came in, I'll let you know what the final robbery was. How is Sudco's delivery? I'm waiting over a week for two pilot jets.

OLD-N-SLOW · Apr 18, 2002

DD,
Sudco will most likly have them in stock. Get a cel and cek needle also.
35-38-40-42 pilot and 150-152-155 main and start having some fun.
Honestly, you wont belive the difference the needle makes.
Steve

70 marlin · Apr 18, 2002

there very fast! and can be faster if you'll pay the shipping. Ditto on what O&S said. maybe even a BEL also.

gtxscirocco · May 19, 2002

Hey everyone :-)

I might as well jump in here with my Q..
I'm having a little bit of a low end /bogging problem with my 1995 KDX 200. I ride tight woods and rocky trails and the power is not as strong as I want it to be in 1st-3rd gear.

Info:
45 Pilot
5 turns air screw for smooth idle
1470 needle "2nd Position"
160 Main.

TIA,
Dan Kraus :-)

gtxscirocco · May 19, 2002

Oh yeah.. My bike is stock.

DK :-)

just doesn't run the way it should

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