KDX Hybrid or KTM?

halowords · Nov 4, 2004

Interested in the KDX and was wondering a couple of things.

Will an Eric Gorr'd KDX225 engine be enough to keep me interested for the trails and occasional MX track for a while if I weigh 220 lbs., or should I just break down and get a KTM MXC 250 or 300? Feel free to let me know if I'd be better off with a woods-modified MX bike; I'm just afraid of outgrowing it, both in talent and in girth.

Also curious . . . How would a KDX engine in the CRF chassis work for a 50/50 or 60/40 trail/track bike? I found Duneman's project of said components in the archives, and it looked and sounded pretty slick (see link below). Figured it'd be a fun way to spend my winter; in the basement with a screwdriver in one hand, can of carb-cleaner in the other, and a stack of CD's.

http://dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=92288&highlight=kdx+hybrid

Just curious about your opinions.

-Cheers

rethnal · Nov 4, 2004

I'd say get the KTM 300 :think:

Lutz · Nov 4, 2004

While I haven't ridden a KTM, my 225 has a lot of power - it honestly holds its own when riding trails with my friends on 250 two strokes and 450 thumpers, though a CRF450 will stomp it in the open. It will hang with 250s in a straight line.

Obviously a 250 or 300 will have more power (possibly much more, as with the 300) than a 225, but the 225 IS NOT lacking in power. It honestly depends on what you want to do, but bang for the buck the 225 is a great mod and produces plenty of power to be fun in the woods and on the track. Hell, even a stock 200 with just a pipe is pretty dang fun though.

The KDX suspension is the major liability here, though it can be made really good. Even with the stock KX125 front end conversion complete on my bike, I still have comparitively little invested in the bike - I certainly couldn't have bought a KTM for what I have invested in my KDX.

rethnal · Nov 4, 2004

If you want to work on the bike and make it your personal bike.. that's one thing... if you want it ready out of the box and money isn't the issue...then that's another. I love my KDX always have and always will. It screams and it crawls excellent. I am constantly adding something to it though, be it parts or just slightly modding an existing part to fit my needs. I don't plan on selling it so I make it what I want. I would like to do the 225 thing on mine but don't want to run race gas... too hard to get around here (meaning it's not on every corner) Just think about your application, what the bike is designed for and how much money and work you want to put into it and I think you can pretty much make up your own mind about this. All these guys in here are biased, I tried not to be when I answered you question but your not me and I tried to look outside the box and answer based on how you asked the question. I thought if your skill level grows alot and you want to MX ... get something your not going to sell in a few years. I have always been a "stick with what you like" kinda guy and I will stay with my Green Stream! :)

Lutz · Nov 4, 2004

I have to agree with rethnal on the "personalize" or "buy out of the box" point, and the "if you're going to MX" point. I'm definately biased, as rethnal points out many of us are: I'm always trying to improve my bike and make it fit my needs. I've also had mine for quite a while, and plan on keeping it for quite a while. Of course, I'm trying to be honest and unbiased in my replies - the choice definitely depends on what you want, for sure.

I would like to do the 225 thing on mine but don't want to run race gas...

Don't let that stop you. Race gas is not a necessity with the 225 ; it's only needed if you have your motor built to run only on race gas. Mine runs exclusively on 92 octane pump fuel, and it runs great. Eric gives you the option to request pump gas or race gas when he builds the motor. Now if I could afford to run race gas...

halowords · Nov 4, 2004

Lutz said:
I have to agree with rethnal on the "personalize" or "buy out of the box" point, and the "if you're going to MX" point.

I'm most likely to do more trail riding than anything else; at closer to 30 than 20, MX riding would be an occasional thing at best, but something I'd still like to try. Hence the CRF frame w/ KDX seemed like a nice compromise with less machining than the KX/KDX hybrid (well, a little less) and stiffer suspension that would also benefit from some revalving and RT springs. However, if a pure MX bike would be better . . .

I only worry about the engine power because of my size/weight. I'm not going to be racing, but I do weigh more than the average Joe and don't know how much more power the CR and YZ250's actually have compared to a 225, and how much of that horsepower I'd need at my dimensions. Of course, I doubt I'd be able to master the 250's, or even need all of that most of the time, considering the Wisconsin and U.P. terrain I'm planning on for most of my riding. Just looking for that compromise do-it-all bike with a focus on the trails, so I'll be modifying whatever I get, either to tighten up the suspension on a trail bike or to take the hit out of the track bike.

-Cheers

rethnal · Nov 4, 2004

Well... A KDX with stiffer suspension should do you just fine. I'm 200 in street clothes and it scares me sometimes :laugh:

halowords · Nov 4, 2004

rethnal said:
If you want to work on the bike and make it your personal bike.. that's one thing...

I'll likely be doing that anyway . . .

Money is an issue to some extent, but some of the used KTM's are relatively comparative in price to some of the other 2-strokes on the market. The KDX just seems a bit less expensive, and seems to have the same purpose in mind as the KTM MXC and EXC.

-Cheers

trailryder · Nov 5, 2004

If this is your first bike the KDX is a very good starting point.Very forgiving.I think a KTM or any other high strung 2 stroke may take from the enjoyment of trailriding. Those bikes can be a handfull in hands less than an intermediate rider, expecally long into a trail ride and being tired.KDX's are very easy to work on and parts won't break the bank. They are great bikes to "learn" how to ride and work on. My point of reference ?? My first bike was a KDX200... then I stepped up to a KTM200EXC...got out of biking for a few years. When I decided to get another bike.....it was a KDX for all the reasons the previous postsers made.I really like the hybred bikes, but you'll need a bigger gas tank for trail riding.

Wolf · Nov 5, 2004

I had a EG 225. No race gas. The engine produced plenty of power for what I used it for (woods). I am 205 in street close, I was able to hang with other 250s. Of course a 450 or 525 will simply walk away in the open. The main draw back to the KDX is the suspension. even modified, the underhang on the forks is a pain (rut snaggers). I was going to build a hybrid (KX forks) but decided to switch to a new bike all together.

rethnal · Nov 5, 2004

The rut snagger comment hit close to home.... I loft through ruts most of the time and usually is not a problem at all, but on my last excursion to LBL in Kentucky... I came up on a berm and went up the side of it kind of slow and was more vertical than usual and the underhang caused the bike to slide out and I wiped it. My tire completely lost contact. It took me a while to figure out what happened but I learned a good lesson that day!

Wolf · Nov 5, 2004

That is the ONLY reason I switched. And no, usually its not that big a deal, but when I get tired and am in "survival mode" I just don't want to have to think about the "snaggers".

halowords · Nov 5, 2004

Wolf said:
That is the ONLY reason I switched. And no, usually its not that big a deal, but when I get tired and am in "survival mode" I just don't want to have to think about the "snaggers".

Out of curiousity, what are you considering for your new ride? Doesn't sound like the CRF/KDX225 hybrid would have that problem, if I went that route, but then again chicks dig scars*.

Just thinking the hybrid might offer the best of both styles of bike, but we'll see what I can find the best price on and options for my expectations and intended use.

-Cheers

*Sadly, that doesn't translate over to my wife, though.

trailryder · Nov 5, 2004

that talk this morning about the CRF hybred really gave me a plumpy. I checked E*ay this morning, Crf are there for sale but their not rolling chassis and they ain't cheap.I did see a KDX220 motor complete for sale and KX rolling chassis are not that hard to find,complete bikes show up every other week or so

Wolf · Nov 5, 2004

I am likely to get a RM250 and convert it, I also have a great line on a KTM 250 EXC.
I'll have one of them at my house this week;)

Mrobbins · Nov 5, 2004

Don't overlook Gas Gas if you have a dealer anywhere near. I really like my "personalized" KDX 220 but next year will be my fourth and probably last season with it. Leaning towards either an EC250 or EC300.

gn83tm · Nov 6, 2004

I built a hybrid (2003 KX125 Chassis/1990 KDX engine) last winter and have really enjoyed the bike this season. I love the KDX motor for its versatility and the KX chassis and suspension are light years ahead of the KDX although you may need to do a little tuning for woods work. I use the bike for trail riding with the kids, practicing and play riding on my woods courses, and racing hare scrambles. It suits my needs very well but the 225 kit is starting to peek my interest and may be one of this winters mods. More power is always good - right?

I think the CR hybrid, less engine, was for sale a while back.

Here's the url to pics of my hybrid:http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/gn83t...done=http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos

JasonWho · Nov 6, 2004

m0rie · Nov 6, 2004

JasonWho said:
gn83tm, the 225 kit is only for 1995 and newer 200 engines. I called and asked them a few months ago. :-(

He could get a 240 kit but Eric Gorr doesn't recommend it. It uses an Iron Liner for one, and it has some reliability issues he's found.

-Maurice

Lutz · Nov 7, 2004

If anyone is really interested in building a hybrid, I have a friend with a 2003 CRF450R with a severely blown engine. He may be interested in selling it as a rolling chassis. Send me a PM if you'd like me to talk to him about it.

gn83tm · Nov 7, 2004

Thanks for the heads up Jason. I didn't realize EG doesn't do the "older" motors. Do you know if Fredette does anything with them as far as big bore kits go?

When I was planning the hybrid Jeff said I'd be better off with my 1990 motor (ported by him) since he felt it could make more power than the newer ones. Plus the head stay on the E motors is on the rear of the head just like the 2003+ KX so that eliminated some cutting and welding in an area I'd rather not mess with.

kmccune · Nov 7, 2004

halowords but then again chicks dig scars*. [/QUOTE said:
Yup, but only OLD ones, so you have a year or so between injuries to wait. :joke:

nrvs-nelly · Nov 7, 2004

The KDX is a great bike for all around use. It has alot of useable power for every application. Would it be great MX bike for a copetitive racer.... probably not. However, for the occasional track run for fun it wouldn't be bad at all.
The nice thing about the KDX is that it won't break the bank to get one. They are easy to work on and there are alot of mods you can do to make them run however you want.
As far as your weight goes, I don't think you have anything to worry about. I know a few guys who are your size and have no iassues with the power.
If you don't decide to go with the KDX then I would look at the Gas-Gas ec300 or a KTM exc300
The nice thing about both of these brands is that they come with a clean cert of origin which makes it a little easier to street reg. them for enduros or turkey runs. The Kdx can also be registered but it depends on the state and the RMV and the clerk that happens to be helping you at the time.

JasonWho · Nov 8, 2004

m0rie · Nov 8, 2004

Here we enter the land of conflicting information :-)

Eric says that running the 240 kit on the 1989-1994 engines is a no-go due to the powervalves being too close to the cylinder and they have to be removed. But i've seen people with the 240 kits on their E series KDX's with no mention of the power valves being removed. It would seem that having the PV's removed would make having the 240 kit pretty much worthless. Perhaps its not so much an issue of the powervalves needing to be removed, but there is so little material left in the cylinder wall that its a reliabilty issue?

Craig has a 240 kit on his 91 without problems, he does however have a SR so maybe the PV setup is different? Lots of good KDX info for the older bikes though.

http://www.copperleife.com/craig/bikes/kdx/index.htm

LA Sleeve makes the sleeve and Wiseco supplies the piston.

That EG says its a no-go is good enough for me, but I still want to know why some people have it on their E series KDX's and have no problems.

-Maurice

KDX Hybrid or KTM?

halowords

rethnal

Lutz

rethnal

Lutz

halowords

rethnal

halowords

trailryder

Wolf

doooode

rethnal

Wolf

doooode

halowords

trailryder

Wolf

doooode

Mrobbins

gn83tm

JasonWho

m0rie

Lutz

gn83tm

kmccune

2-Strokes forever

nrvs-nelly

JasonWho

m0rie

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KDX Hybrid or KTM?

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