KDX replacement - 4 those whov riden an EXC

[mnnthbx]

Though I dearly love the KDX, I keep having thoughts of going orange in the near future.

For those who've spent time on an EXC, how does the 200 or 250 compare to my KDX 200? I hear the bottom end isn't too strong, but in comparioson to what I'm not sure. I would have to guess they are both as stout as my 200 on the bottom?

It's stated they are both much stronger overall, and I don't doubt that.

I figure if I put this in a KTM forum, I'll be bombarded with "no comparison" replies. The opposite may happen here, but I'm hoping a few of you with seat time can pull a unbiased review off for me. Thanks.

 

[Wolf]

Last time I posted my impressions here I got blasted, e-mail or pm me. I refuse to post it inhere again. (I just switched to an EXC 250).

 

[mnnthbx]

Thanks Wolf. Please e-mail me @ mnnthbx@hotmail.com. What year 250 is that? Any feedback you can give me is graetly appriciated. I'm curious as to the luggability of the 250 compared to my 200. Thanks.

 

[motorider200]

I believe CC has had some seat time on a 200exc you might try searching. He posted a compairison a while back.

 

[dirt bike dave]

I've owned 3 kdxs and many of my buddies have owned KDXs. I have also ridden many e/xcs, including the 200, 250 and 300.

First, BIKE SET UP is critical for every machine. A well dialed in bike will beat a poorly set up bike every time. In my experience, many of the fast offroad & enduro racers prefer bikes with PLUSH suspension and smooth power; these race bikes are very capable on the nastiest trails you can imagine.

Second, PERSONAL PREFERENCE is a huge factor. Everbody rides faster on a bike they feel comfortable and confident on.

MY OPINIONS:

200 e/xc: The ones I have ridden were '00 and '03 dialed in race bikes with modified suspension and steering dampers. Great bikes with way more motor than any KDX200 I've thrown a leg over. The '03 especially feels lighter; it will carve tight corners like a good japanese MXer, way better suspension when pushing hard than a KDX. Quality components, needs very little work to be raced or trail ridden. It is basically like a KDX with 20 less pounds, better suspension, and 20% more power from mid range on up. I like the KDX and respect its strong points, but for ME, the KTM is the better choice.

250 e/xc - I had the pleasure of riding Angry Jim's '02 with extensive suspension mods and steering damper. Jim is currently top 5 in Vet A Cross Country for D36 on this bike, and has switched over the 250 from his '03 200 e/xc. The 250 has less bottom end power than my enduro modded '99 CR250, but MORE power on top. This bike feels lighter than my CR250 and is Jim's is the only bike I have ever ridden that has better suspension than the Factory Connection suspension on my bike. I have never ridden any KDX that has the performance potential of this bike - not even close. This bike feels competive in intermediate MX, but you could ride it all day on the trails or win an enduro or CC on it without changing a thing. Great bike!

Like the other 'big' ktms, you need to get used to the feel when cornering. People say they won't turn tight as effortlessly as a KDX or an MX bike, but IMO part of this is bike set up and part is you just need to get used to the bike. The 'big' ktms will turn just fine in the tight stuff, as my friends have proven to me over and over again when they gap me.

300 e/xc - you didn't ask about it, but I've ridden them plenty. More motor than the 250, especially way more down low. Actual weight ready to ride is probably less than the KDX200's; fine bike but I find it more tiring to ride than the 250 or 200. I prefer the 200 or 250, but the 300 riders usually think it is the best, most versatile bike in the world. That's the personal preference thing.

KDX200 - great bang for the buck. Handles well but greatly benefits from suspension work (especially forks) and minor motor mods. Good trail bike that can go pretty well when it suits the trail and the rider preferences, but faster riders will find there are plenty of opportunities they could put the superior performance potential fo the KTMs to use. Basically, it is very good at what it is designed to do, but the KTM is newer and more expensive technology, so it would be a give surprise if stock for stock a KDX could run faster than a KTM on most trails.

 

[mnnthbx]

Thanks for taking the time to write all that.

My thoughts are this. I probably would love the 200exc, and I could more or less ring it the way I do my KDX now, but I want to get in a position of having enough bike under me (power wise) that I can keep it nearly stock far into the future..... hence the 250...

I have some idea I would spend most my time on the 300 trying not to get myself killed than enjoying the ride. The only high power bike I've spent much time on is a KTM 450sx. It was fun in the open, but I wouldn't want to be in a sticky situation on a bike with that power.

I guess I'm looking for a bike with about 5% more power than I can use, where as the KDX is about 10% less than I can use.

 

[placelast]

I’ve sampled two 200E/XCs, one 250E/XC, two 300E/XCs, and 4 KDXes before owning one of the latter, albeit in hybrid form. Here are my (dated) impressions:

The small E/XCs had surprisingly so much motor, the only way I could intentionally lug them down – as a test to see how well they chugged - was on uphill hard pack at low RPM; everywhere else it was roost/boost not far down from a 250. Fun indeed. And they would go through the gears like a race bike – maybe too quickly: there’s something telling you to go faster, like a dog tugging on the leash.

Being used to Asian suspension, they felt a bit odd and harsh, but I would attribute that to early releases of the PDS, and no setup. One was a special Jackpiner - the most handsome bike ever, IMHO - and the other a stock ’99. Both were light and flick-able and sized comfortably for my 5’9”, 160-lb frame. I thought then and still think they are close to the ideal for me.

The 250 was a ’98, and had a low-to-mid RPM-meaty motor to envy – the opposite of my 250’s (snappy from mid up). This E/XC felt a bit bigger, longer and stable compared to the 200’s but not uncomfortable to go fast. Since the magazines said this KTM did not have good suspension, I was expecting not to like it, but it seemed fine – why the fuss?

There’s something about the 300s power delivery which just plain scared me; both were given back to their owners before anything broke or anyone (me) got hurt. I think it was their ability to hookup. Some swear by them and that’s great for them, but not me.

Now the KDXes felt like a few notches down in the engine department, certainly not nearly as refined as the E/XCs everywhere else, although with more potential than my XRs, TT and DR. It’s doubtful the four I sampled were setup, yet I do know there is less of a foundation to work with (lower grade). Saying these things may get me into trouble, so before ya ‘all slam me read on:

My hybrid (KX125-framed) KDX has FRP porting, RB head milling/squish reshaping, the RB carb mod, a Dynoport pipe, Boyesen reeds, and, well, still can’t touch the 200 E/XCs in engine performance at any RPM; it’s simply not possible to squeeze any more oomph out of the engine, although it’s plenty for my two younger sons for years to come.

For survival rides, the hybrid would be my choice, though everywhere else, my oldest son and I prefer my 250. And we would certainly welcome a 200 E/XC.

 

[rethnal]

Last time I posted my impressions here I got blasted, e-mail or pm me. I refuse to post it inhere again. (I just switched to an EXC 250).

:laugh:

I just don't think you liked the "depends on the application" part. But it's true..... If you ride balls to the wall... KTM's are your bike. I have owned a 98 KTM 250EXC and it had an 1/8 throttle. Try to control that in the woods unless you are racing.... Just a fact. If you run tight trails and only go fast every now and then.... Why buy a KTM? What is the point of spending all that extra money on a KTM when it could go into gear that makes your KDX even better suited for the woods? Like a stabilizer, skid plate etc... and still come out much cheaper. Don't get me wrong... I loved my KTM but just couldn't make it work for me. They are great bikes, but depends on your application..... ;)

 

[mnnthbx]

What is the point of spending all that extra money on a KTM when it could go into gear that makes your KDX even better suited for the woods

My KDX is decked out full of armour and a WER. I just want a bike that scares me "just a bit". I figure it's like this. On a scale of 1-10, to me the KDX is a 9, I'm just set on wasting that money to park a new 10 in my garage. At this point, I'm fairly certain I'll go orange, it's just a matter of which size. I will say this though... I don't think you can beat the KDX $ for $. I've just help convince two friends of that in the last few months, who have new green bikes at home.

Thanks for the input everyone.

 

[trailryder]

I'm with rethnal on this one.I owned a 96 kdx...put all the goodies on it....then I stepped up to a WER suspended 99 KTM 200 exc.. Slimmer, way more power than this mid pack "C" rider would ever need. I had SO many problems keeping it jetted right that it took all the fun out of riding. Sold it.Raced mountain bikes for a few years and got the dirtbike bug again. Want to know what bike I bought to get back into riding again ??????? A 01 KDX. This winter I'll install all the goodies once again. I'm a 38 year old trail rider, the racey ktm doesn't apeal to me at this part of the game. You may be having "trail envy". I'd ride one of the ktm's before buying one.

 

[rethnal]

I just want a bike that scares me "just a bit".

It'll do that... be careful! ;)

 

[nrvs-nelly]

Great reading for someone who has been thinking of making the switch also. I'm border line right now. I just got done installing all the goodies on my '99 but now I have bike envy since I see all my buddies with newer bikes. If and when I do it, It will either be a KTM exc300 or the GAS GAS ec300

 

[moridin]

Yea, yea - I lurk every so often.

I will first tell you I love the KDX. I have had several over the years and just sold my last KDX to a nice fellow that I am sure is a frequent guest here now. I already converted to Orange several years ago - but my KDX was my baby. I finally made the switch.

That being said - there is no comparrison. My 200 MXC (that is the close ratio tranny) is amazing. More power everythwhere with tons more on top. No less on the bottom than my 200, but not quite what the 200 has. Mid on up is 20% maybe 30% higher.

The suspension is world-class and the bike feels so much lighter. On the books they are maybe 20 pounds different, but it feels like 50. You can flick this bike like a 125 and it pulls like a 250.

KTMs have agreat support group - sort of like Canadian Dave's with 25K memebers - so answers are a post away. I just dont see the downside.

Cost really isnt an issue as the are really ready to race out of the crate.

Email me if you have any questions. Just get one and dont look back.

 

[DirtRoller]

Last time I posted my impressions here I got blasted, e-mail or pm me. I refuse to post it inhere again. (I just switched to an EXC 250).

Sorry Wolf didn't mean to rub you the wrong way. The post was more of a razz... with :nener: , :laugh: I was sure you would have taken it that way.
I have ridden both, or ride with others who have KTM's. The bike's that I have ridden are good bikes and can surely out perform a KDX in the right hands.
Would I own one? NO. Would I like to have KDX with a little more of the KTM's parts? Yes :laugh:
There is one exception...but it would look like this.
The KTM in my future photo

 

[jafo]

This may not answer your question on this particular topic, but I work with quite a few guys that trail ride.......alot. Many are into hair scrambles, and there is a wide diversity of bike brands they ride. All in all, you ask them what bikes they prefer in the woods and I'll bet 85% of them go with the KDX. The other 15% have KTMs, 525's to be exact. As far as first hand experience, with the ones that I ride with, only one rides a different bike, the rest of us are on KDX's from 200 thru 220's. I am impressed with this one guys CRF250. It's totally badd a$$ on the trail ! He's had a few mods done to it to get alittle more low-in, but pound for pound, his CRF is equal to our KDX's but falls a bit short at top in, very little. I'm looking at maybe going with a KX250F next time around. I love KDX's but I'm looking to a four stroke next time around, the CRF made a believer out of me. Just my 2 cents.

jon.

 

[john_bilbrey]

Here's my take....
I'm riding a '03 220 with Gnarly Desert/PCII, jetted w/o airbox lid or snorkel. Stock suspension (I know, I know...)
My Dad has been through several pumpkins since he has gotten back into riding. Started out on a XR400, that didn't last long. Then came the 380EXC (01 or 02) Round One. Crazy power, so much so that he kept it jetted rich to tame it. If he would have kept it, a couple of base gaskets would have been added to tame it more. Handling - it was all a matter of knowing how to control the throttle. Then came the 02 300EXC. Power - nice, it pulled down low like a champ and would run away with you up top. Handling - I don't know if it was the bike setup or what, but everyone who rode this particular bike ended up on their ears. Although, Dirt Rider (or Dirtbike?) picked it as the #1 woods weapon several times. Then back to the same 380. That didn't work this time either, just too many beans. Finally, we arrive with a 03 450EXC, Race Tech suspension, GPR, and proper jetting. Power wise, this thing is great. Pull off the bottom is great, and it'll push 100MPH of the showroom floor. Put it in 3rd and just ride. I love this bike, although it's a little stiff for me (I'm 185, Dad is pushing 300). The bike "feels" light everywhere except during loading/unloading, or after a spill. It is nimble for such a heavy bike, feels skinny. Plus, the magic button is handy.
Bottom line- the KDX is, by far, the best dollar for dollar machine out there. With a few hundred in mods, it's going to be able to outride most of us out there. Plus, you can by two of them fully loaded for what one 450 pumpkin is going to run you.

 

[BRush]

I own both a ’96 KDX 200 (MX-Tech, 225 big bore kit, damper, pipe, airbox, etc) and an ’03 250 EXC. I’ve spent a fair amount of time swapping off with friends who own EXC 200s. The EXC 200 does not suit me. Too much of a hit and not enough down low, though when you get in on the pipe, it’s a nimble rocket ship. That kind of power is great for an A level enduro rider. For me it’s fun for the first hour, but when I get tired it just magnifies any mistake I make. Someone else called it a ‘dog tugging on a leash’ and sometimes keeping the dog under control will tire you out. If that was the only choice, I’d have stuck with the KDX. Fortunately, the EXC 250 is another story. The 250 is great, and is what I ended up with. The 250 is a tractor down low and has a tad more grunt than my KDX motor with the 225cc Eric Gorr big bore kit. With proper adjustment of the power valve adjuster, the power is linear and smooth, without the hit of the 200.

It is a far better enduro competition bike than the KDX, mostly due to the much better suspension and stiffer frame. The difference becomes noticeable when you push the pace. The KTM is confident and planted over rough trail at speeds that have my MX-Tech suspended KDX starting to act nervous and spooky. But the KTM is not necessarily a better trail bike than the KDX. I still find myself taking out the KDX when the ride will be casual with friends who are non-aggressive riders. The KDX is just fun. It is easier to tailor my pace to slower riders and when the terrain gets to the “ignorant tight” feet-off-the-pegs dog paddle sections, the KDX will hold its own with any bike.

 

[trailryder]

BRush- so in other words you take the KDX out riding with the knobbie tires wheelchair rider club rides ??? Anything above that you take out the KTM ??? LOL

 

[cadjocky]

I have a 2004 200EXC and a 1998 KDX200. They sure are different bikes. The KDX is friendly, the KTM is angry. Some people here have done great things with their KDX's, but the KTM is already there.

 

[rainrider]

it has been my observation that it comes down to two things 1) your weight 2) what rpms you like to ride at. I had a kx200 hybrid and i loved it . it would lug me around anywhere and i liked the way it climbed rocky uphills (like we have here in the cascade mountains of washington state) now i have recently bought my 2nd 200exc . any place your kdx took you, the ktm will take you there.... better.... (and with a bigger smile) that is my opinion. it is MUCH lighter . i weigh right around 150 all geared up with a full toolpack and camelback. i ride with a few others who are much bigger than me and they loved their exc200s until they had to climb hills or get up tight and tall switchbacks. which brings me to case #2 ... if you are a bigger rider who likes to ride on the main jet (like it was meant to be riden)....get ON that pipe and just throw it around......(ie zero it) it has enough power every where........if you are a 200 pounder and like to ride on the pilot jet....you better get a bigger bore

 

[Tom Ludolff]

That's where the 300exc's come into play!!!

 

[Fred T]

I can add to this

I used to be a big poster in this forum about 2 years ago when I had my KDX 220. I spend a ton of money on mods and did some pretty extensive MX tech suspension mods including a revalved and hard anodized rear shock, revalved forks, stiffer springs with mid valves added and rebound adjustment added. I had Boyesan reeds, RB Carb mod, FMF pipe, Wiseco piston, FRP goodies added - she was pretty sweet. I only got $3000 for my KDX and lost a bunch of money with the upgrades. I bought a 2003 250 EXC and in a matter of minutes I was faster than on my KDX. Stiffer frame, better suspension and a ton more motor made going fast easy. Since that bike I'm now on my 3rd KTM 250 EXC - a 2005. The newer 2004 and 2005 250 EXC's are dramatically better than that 2003 EXC with a better motor, 10 lbs lighter, and improved suspension and handling. The new KTM 250 weighs quite a bit less than a KDX. (My son has a 2002 KDX 220) For him it's a great bike -it's milder and forgiving and quite a step up from his first bike a Honda XR 200.

If you are serious about going fast then a KTM is a great value at about $2000 more than a KDX. By the time you put some mods on a KDX to make it race worthy the price spread between a KTM and KDX gets pretty small and you get a bike with much better quality parts. A KTM is a dream to work on too. I can change rear brakes pads in 1 minute or less on the trail!

The KDX has it place in the market as a great value trail bike thats fun to ride, stone reliable and user friendly. And honestly when the trail gets real knarly and first or sometimes second gear is all that is achievable then it will go just about as quick.

For some reason Jeff Fredette can reall make one haul and I don't understand it and I've rode 3 enduros where we were both entered this summer and he passed me in all of them with a number 1-3 minutes behind me. How he makes one go that fast is beyond me! Of course Jeff ended up 2nd overall in the district standings so I wasn't the only bike he was passing with ease.

 

[trailryder]

Awwwwww Fred.....................why did ya have to go and say that.......? Now you got a bunch of KDXer's who wanta go real fast eyes glowing orange......lol

 

[Wolf]

FredT summed it up best IMO. Except for the Fredette comment, he passed me with a number 3 - 6 minutes behind me.

 

[Jim Crenca]

Fred,
Any comments on how the KTM compares as a trail or play bike?
There have been posts that make it sound like a beast if you just want to go for a fun ride without racing.