Kickstarter disengaging / best aftermarket pipe

[Westex]

Hello to all,
I have a 98 250EXC and am learning to love the motor on this bike. I came off a KDX 220. Anyway, the kick starter will not engage unless you very quickly slap it back. Its kinda like a shoulderstrap on a car, if you pull it slow it will not catch. I can reach down with my hand and quickly move it and it will engage. Then I can kick it over with no problem. However, this worries me because I have an enduro next weekend and this could be a problem during a race. Has anyone had this problem? Do you know how hard it would be to fix it? Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Also what would be the best replacement pipe for this bike, an FMF or ProCircuit?

Keith

 

[Smitty]

I'm not for sure what part is causing this problem, but I remember a friend with a 98 300 that had similar problem. His kickstarter would not engage at all and the problem was with a small catch and spring on the kickstart mechanism, I think. The parts were cheap and relatively easy to fix. Check out an exploded view in your parts manual for what might be wrong. I'd fix it before the race to avoid it breaking off completely.

 

[Westex]

Thanks Smitty,
I'm going to have to chance it. The race is on Sunday and I really don't want to tear down the engine at this point and risk tearing something else up. I'll probably inspect it after the race. I took a torch and some freeze plugs and got all the dents out of my pipe on Monday. I was surprised how easily they came out.

Keith

 

[motojunkie]

Westex, can you go over, in detail, how you removed dents from your pipe. Also, what equipment that you used. Thanks!

 

[zilla]

I have a 98 380 EXC and it seems to me that there was a kickstarter issue that year. I also seem to remember having to take my bike back to the dealer for a kickstarter part update. I reccomend the ProCircuit pipe, as I have ran both the FMF and currently am using the ProCircuit. The ProCircuit seems like it stretches the power band better than the FMF, and overall it is easier to ride the bike..

 

[RoadRunner]

There is a 99cent spring that gets chewed in half after too much hard kicking. Some of the '98s also had a pin in the ratchet of the kisckstarter that could let go I think. Unfortunately you have to remove the clutch basket to get to it (at least on my 380, yours may be different) It really is easy to fix if you have access to an impact and big socket to remove the basket...make sure to get a new washer for the basket nut. It has one of the washers with an extra flange to bend over the nut and hold it on.

 

[euro gasgas]

You might want to consider the doma pipe. Hand made in belgium and available in the u.s. from langston racing - www.langstonracing.com.

jeff
'01 gasgas ec300
www.lt-racing.com GasGas Performance Accessories and Services
[url]www.smackovermotorsports.com[/url] GasGas Parts Warehouse

 

[ktm300mxczz]

little spring

the problem is a little spring like in a pen it cost about2 bucks.must pull cover off the spring pushes the prawl out

 

[Strick]

Kickstarter Pawl, and Pawl Spring, The posters above are right about the expense of the part (spring - Cheap). Look at the microfiche and purchase the 'key' also (I think it is called a key) It is the part the spring goes into. Also a little tip: round the edges slightly where the spring fits into the 'key'. The abrupt edges makes the spring wear out more quickly.

 

[ktm300mxczz]

poipe

I think rich dailey makes the best pipes dyno port sturdy and tell them the kind if power you want they probably already have a pipe for 2 strokes

 

[Westex]

fixing dents

Thanks to all,
I really appreciate your knowedgable responses. After the race on Sunday I'll tear it apart and see what I can do. Also, MOTOJUNKIE below is how I fixed the dents in my stock pipe:
1. Remove your badly damaged pipe and take it to an auto parts store. They will look at you funny.)
2. Find two rubber freeze plugs. One for each end of the pipe. The best ones are rubber, but have a bolt and washers through the middle. When you tighten the bolt, it makes the rubber expand and fit tight in the pipe, thus sealing it up. Get plugs that will barely fit in their natural state. You may have to tap the plugs to get them in.
3. Install and tighten, one of the plugs. You may also have to moisten the plug and twist it to get it in. After one of the plugs is in, fill the pipe with as much water as you can get into the pipe.
4. Install the remaining plug.
5. Then place the pipe in a vise. The large plug kept blowing out so I had to position the pipe in the vise in a way in which the vise helped hold the large plug in position.
6. Take the cutting torch and begin heating the pipe. If you have a "rosebud" tip that would work best. I didn't and the cutting tip works fine. However, be extremely careful or you will cut a hole into the pipe. Keep your thumb off the cutting valve.
7. Begin with a small dent first. They are easier and you will quickly learn the technique. Keep the tip of the torch moving in a circular motion. Heat not only the dent itself but also a small area around the dent. For example if the dent is the size of a dime, you will want to heat up an area roughly the size of a nickel.
8. The first dent will take the longest because you have to heat the water up enough to create steam.
9. You continue heating up the dent in a circular motion until it begins to glow. Keep moving the torch and do not burn a hole in the pipe. To your amazement you will see the dent "bubble" out slightly and eventually take on its natural shape.
10. Then move on to the next dent.
11. I would like to add that I was a little nervous about this at first. Sometimes one of the plugs will blow out of the end of the pipe, shooting hot steam and water out. DO NOT get your face or body near or in the line of fire of either of the freeze plugs.
I would also recommend using extreme caution when doing this. Wear protective gloves and a face shield. Also my pipe was badly dented and when I got about half way through I let the pipe cool down a little. I didn't want to build up too much pressure. Then I continued until I was through. I fixed approximately 15 dents. A couple of them were huge. After I started heating the pipe I was probably done in about 15 minutes. It was fairly easy for me because I have a lot of experience with a torch.
Remember, to be cautious. Don't get hurt and don't burn a hole in the pipe.
Good luck,
Keith

 

[zilla]

I've seen the guys at the machine shop here fix pipes the same way, only they don't use water. They just plug the pipe ends and heat away. The air inside expands and pushes the dent out. I like the water idea, because it helps keep the heat localized, and seems like it would be easier to control.

 

[Milquetoast]

Really great tip Westex! I'll file that in the old noggin in case I ever buy (and crash) a 2-smoker. :-)

 

[Strick]

Originally posted by ktm300mxczz
ive never seen the prawl bad in newer bikes seems like extra expense

Because of the time involved in replacing a $2 spring,and the cost of the Gasket (~$12). You may want to purchase the whole pawl assembly (~$40), which inludes the keeper. I did this on my 300, just because I didn't want to have to go back in there again later. Prevention is better than the alternative.

 

[motojunkie]

Westex - Thanks for the tip! Although I don't ride a 2-stroke, I have a lot of friends that do, and I'm sure they're going to thank you also.:)

 

[rollingp]

If you get a new spring for the kick starter pawl get a stainless one.
If your pawl slips and catches just right it will break the entire assembly that holds it together.
The 98 ktms all had this problem and it can be prevented with a good stainless spring that wont get mashed over time. Believe me I had to replace the failed parts on my 98 380 and so did my riding partner on his 98 250.
It was really bad on the 380,s because of the compression they make. The 99,s had a compression release port to help with the problem and I never had any trouble with the 2 I owned . Just the 98.

 

[KTMdude911]

Westex

Thanks a lot for the tip.It will defenitly help.

 

[tim lambdin]

I was about to post a thread on this and seen this one (glad i did) while starting my 90 250 MX today it kicked back a bit and now the kick starter is not engaging at all ,it will still return to its upright position fine but just wont catch and turn the engine, does this sound like the same problem mentioned above??? is it something a mechanical minded novice like me can fix myself? ,do you have to remove more than the cover to get to the part? and if so what kind of oil do i replace when i put it back together? thanks :D

 

[ktm300mxczz]

gasket? strick

if you must spend money cool but the prawl is good the spring is made of inferior metal, as far as the gasket I have reused mine more than one with out a spill of any oil the gasket should be ok unless you rip it, I have never ripped mine. why not change the seal for the kicker while your at it an ounce of prevention is worth a ton of gold. I dont race for money Im not good enough I race for fun if I race professionally I would locate that stain;less spring and put a new motor in the bike no no I would replace the bike.

 

[TexKDX]

ktm300mxczz,

I don't know who you are or where you came from, but how about giving us DRNers a little clue as to your background and employment? Your profile is blank. You sure seem to be dispensing alot of authorative statements lately in your short tenure here at DRN. Please, clue us in. We're always looking for talented contributors here at DRN.

As to the kickstarter parts - KTM did have a recall in '98 to replace the stationary half moon-shaped part that the engagement pawl rides under. '99 and later should not be a problem with THIS part. The pawl itself is another story. There are three parts in there - the pawl, a spring, and a pin. The pawl and the spring are both subject to repeat problems on these bikes. Not a high incidence of failure mind you, but when I broke my pawl the dealer (Mikes Cycles in Baton Rouge LA) told me that they always stock these, the spring, and the pin. The pawl is subject to breaking on the thin edge around the back side of the pin. More common though is the spring itself wears, causing it to thin on one side and and eventually fail. Westex, this is most likely the cause of your problem. If it disengages OK and does not give a rattling sound when the engine is running then the pawl is probably OK. BUT, your slap-kicking it to give it enough centripital force to engage is HAMMERING the weak little pawl.

If it were me and I went to the trouble to pull the side case off, I'd go ahead and replace the pin and pawl as well as the spring. I can't remember if you can get to the spring without pulling the basket. To get to the pawl you definately must pull the basket. The most difficult part of this whole thing is getting the kickstarter off. It will most likely have tried to weld itself to the shaft, so pull the retaining bolt, lay the bike on its left side, and start soaking it now with some release fluid now.

Let us know if you need help getting the inner basket nut off. It can be done easily without any special tools. Just don't use that vice-grip like thing. Also keep an eye on the roller bearing and washers when you pull the outter basket off the shaft - you don't want these to hit the floor.

If you do replace the pawl, you'll need to press out the old pin and in the new one. I used a bench vice, a 1/4-20 or 5/16-20 nut, and a chain pin to do this. Again no special tools required.

Oh and, do Strick's little chamfering trick. I didn't hear of this until after I got mine back together.

Good luck,

 

[ktm300mxczz]

weel tex

my name is gabriel kousouros I was the biggest ktm sales person in ny in 01 and 00 I came from my mothers womb on 3 11 65 at griffis afb in rome ny I have been selling fixing and attending ktm seminars tech classes and annual rides for the last five years. I work at the largest ktm dealership in ny (tnt) was the smallest before i arrived. clue you in number one.

as far as this recall what was the recall number because i cant find in in my extensive file on ktm tech sheets a recall? are you sure or you talking the talk? of the 15 or so kick starter repairs of this nature the only time the prawl was damaged was when idiots kept on kick and kicking for a long period of time like never sought a fix until it would not catch at all. If you noticed even with the spring broke a good hard kick might engage this mechanism.

as far as a recall i think your talking big I dont belive you. If you doubt my abilities or my expertise call me in person at <1-800-IMAPUTZ> after 6 easter. as i have just opened my own shop and dont arrive home till then. the reason i have no profile is i have very little time. Im not newe i have been a member a while. your profile is very week but your posts are enounourmous like you mouth.dont mean to be mean. but you well spoken well typing people who live on computers and probably never race kill me. you have my name and number any time you want to match your motorcycle skills against mine let me know because you probably cant ride either. I race motocross and harescramble as often as i can. ibelong to ama wnyoa dists and satra. I didnt see any orgs you belong to on your nonfiiled out profile although you have a pretty banner. are you a suit who sits at a desk and surfs the net all day on some elses time? let me know ill be waitng to here from you. and get that recall number. remember you said recall not tech notice. bye and have a nice day.

 

[RoadRunner]

This is not the flame war/trolling forum, this is a forum to provide help and assistance to other motorcycle enthusiasts. Opinions are great, but when it becomes personal it is no longer amusing.

 

[Patman]

So mister ktm300mxczz seems to be pretty impressed with him/herself. I mean being a big salesperson and all must give you vast knowledge of these types of things just from being near the bikes all day right? WOW and attending rides and classes for 5 whole years? You rock (your own little world). You do seem a little confused though. You claim to work at the largest ktm dealership in NY but you also have started your own shop and don't get home until the late hour of 6? It would seem that if you were all fired up about being the greatest thing since PopTarts that you would include some of this information in your profile for all to admire. It really doesn't take much time to fill out, much less than what your little rant here would take most. If you had been an active member of DRN you would KNOW that the two members your choosing to try and belittle are two of the more technically able and informed people here and have earned the respect of many here and on other sites. You yourself seem to talk a good talk, show up at Dirt Week '02 and show us all what you've got, I'm sure there are a few people that could keep your pace.:silly:

 

[TexKDX]

Westex, further research indicates there were two customer notifications for return to dealer on the early '98s, not just one. They were for the kickstarter and for the rear shock. I'm packing up for a two day event this weekend and won't be around until late Sunday eve but hope to get copies of the notices over the weekend and post them here Monday.

In the mean time, shoot me an email if you need any help getting the kickstarter squared away. It can be done with common hand tools and basic skills.

As for Mr. ktm300mxczz, might I suggest you enrole in a local GED class in the evenings instead of opening your own business. Be sure and sign up for the typing, remedial english composition, and spelling electives when the opportunity presents itself. Also, For someone so rooted in the KTM world as self described, I find your other flagrant post here on DRN somewhat puzzling:

http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?threadid=35178

Care to explain?

 

[Strick]

ROFLMAO

Good Job, Tex.

That is why I stuck a fork in this thread already.

Is school out again??