KIPS Kuestions

[sjp]

Had a '92, now rebuilding an '02. New plating, Wiesco pistons
Boyesen reeds and so on.
The KIPS is a little different than previous, but not impossible.
After assy. just how 'smooth'' should the movement be?
When I turn it by hand it seems tight. Applied the right lube to all required points, all fasteners are to specs, even replaced the seals in the jug and put a new o-ring on the exhaust valve arm. It just seems tight, now maybe the engine heat and operating temp will loosen things up. But I would like some input before I put all back together and find out I going to do it again.
2nd Question - About the KIPS shaft into the motor.
Exactly how does it come out. I removed the screw and pin.
Does this come out without taking the engine part? I would like to inspect the bottom section.
Thank you in advance for your support.

 

[hallsy]

I just got mine back from the shop, milled, ported and replated. I noticed the power valve had a tendency to hang up (stop) before it opened all the way, unless I twisted the gear real hard or fast. After taking it apart I found that both the forked piece and the pin that slides in it, were worn. The forked piece had some small indentations in it, these were removed with a file. The pin was groved so it got replaced with a new part. When reinstalled the power valve moved smoothly and easily from full closed to full open. I also noticed that there was only one washer under the head of the bolt that holds the ball and spring in place, the parts diagram indicates two. I think two puts less pressure on the spring/ball and allows the shaft to turn a little easier. Oh and believe it or not one time I managed to get that little ball sandwiched between the gear segment and the side of the cylinder :yikes:

 

[hallsy]

Part 2- the shaft will not come out without removing the cover, due to a part that is screwed to the end of it. If you pulled the shaft outward after removing the screw and pin you probably disengaged the part in question from its place in the actuator, it can be re-engaged without removing the cover but it will take a few trys. If you want to remove the cover you need to drain the trans. fluid, and coolant, then remove the kickstarter, brake pedal, clutch cable, water pump cover, coolant hose, and 9 case cover bolts. If you remove the cover watch for a thin washer that goes on the kickstart shaft, it sticks to the cover untill removed from the shaft then falls on the floor, or in my case into the pan of transmission fluid. :bang:

 

[sjp]

Thanks for the reply...
And after more research I found that there may be problems after getting the bore replated with some changes to the surfaces that come in contact with the moving KIPS parts.

I'll have to go through the topend again and check surfaces and my KIPS pieces for wear.

After going this far I am going to pull the right side cover and look things over. When I took the screw and pin out of the KIPS shaft into the engine I did pull it up, which most likley disengaged the bottom. Might not have been a bad move in the long run, if I rotate the shaft it looks like it's bent.
So, I'm going to go in and make things right.
Again, thanks for your input.

 

[hallsy]

Good idea, I didn't think to check my shaft but I will now, I do have to replace the part that attaches to the end of the shaft, cause its bent and cracked (my fault) I think? It's a 90 degree bracket with a pin connected to it, looks like the pin should be parallel to the shaft. I don't have the new part yet so can't say for sure. What do you think of the wiseco piston? This is the first time I've tried one and I noticed the opening in the skirt (window) is smaller than the one I took out. I wonder what effect if any this has on the motors performance?

 

[newkid]

There is a spring and detent ball on the 95 up kdx that hold the valve closed untill 6000 rpm. This gives the feel of being tight when fully closed, and loose when turned towards open. I hopes this helps.

 

[sjp]

Hello, As an after thought I did back off the bolt holding in the detent ball and it did seem a little more loose, but still did not instill a great deal of confidence. I'm going to take the top end, with the KIPS installed and get an opinion from a shop mechanic about the tension.
As far as the rebuild, I had a '92 and did a total rebuild based on hare scramble racing on the east coast. There was an article in Dirt Bike (or Dirt Rider?) about Fredette's setup for the earlier KDX's. It had three stages of rebuild. Of course each one was more indepth and expensive. The stages were progressive and did build on each other. But anyway, The Wiesco, Boyseen, FMF Gnarly with FMF silencer and the correct jetting really makes thing come alive no matter what year you have.. But, none of this works right without the KIPS operating properly. I'll keep you updated after my shop visit. Thanks

 

[karlp]

I had a the exact same situation with a "sticky' KIPS and I put the motor back together hoping it would loosen up over time.
It didn't.
A year later it stuck for good and I took it all apart and fixed it.

I found that the source of the problem was roughness in the RH subport actuation shaft bore caused by the pre-plating pickling process. (There's a mouthfull!)

A bit of emory cloth wrapped around a drill bit smoothed the bore and KIPS operation

 

[hallsy]

Well crud none of the dealers around here had the part I needed, so it'll be a couple weeks before I can get her running. I checked that shaft today, it was straight, looks like it would be hard to bend. Sjp let us know what you find.

 

[KdX_SkUiRrEl]

Hey if you want to know a way to keep the kips from carboning up, use motul premix!! it works friggin amazing. i havent had to touch the kips on my bike for 2 years. no carbon at all. Sidenote: using a wire wheel also helps get rid of carbon. without leaving any huuugh gouges. just a thought

 

[sjp]

Update...
Shop has set me at ease, the tension is acceptable.
Now the good part, after removing the right side cover I found the little magic piece that everyone finds when the bottom piece on the KIPS shaft breaks off. And it looks like it caused no further damage.
And yes, after removing the shaft it was bent. Have all the new pieces and gaskets and will bolt it back together.
Thanks for the input.
With the mods, FMF pipe, Wiesco piston, Boysen Reeds I'm going the start with Spectro at 40:1, 45 pilot, 155 main standard needle, 3rd clip and jet from there after breakin.
Any input about this? (opening a can of worms?)