Knee Brace Study

Dr.billZ · Dec 17, 2001

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20000115/411.html

I promised many people that if I found this study, I'd post it. I'll be leaving now..........ouch that door hit me in the %$#.

XRpredator · Dec 17, 2001

Wow!

Thanks Bill! I'm gonna print that up and show it to my lil Buttercup (she's an ATC). She and her boss would really dig that info!

Wolf · Dec 17, 2001

Originally posted by Dr.billZ
http://www.aafp.org/afp/20000115/411.html

I'll be leaving now..........ouch that door hit me in the %$#.

Hmm, not to change the subject, but I haven't been around a lot recently, so.......???????????????:ugg:

Patman · Dec 17, 2001

:think So we have some doctors who's OPINION is that braces for activities such as football are unnecessary and only needed to recover from and injury? Perhaps that's true, at least in their opinion. Did these doctors study MX/SX/off road motorcycle riding? Hard to tell because they don't state it any place. Perhaps another set of doctors would find that helmets don't really perform as intended and are therefore not needed. What about chest protectors or even boots doc? I mean did your boots protect your lower leg? I've got a ortho that would strongly disagree with the information in the link that was provided but what does he know he's just the most respected knee and ankle doctor in central Texas and cares for the University of Texas' sports teams knee and ankle issues :silly: . I mean just because I have gone to him for several years and he told me I should purchase the Asterisk Cells over ANY brace he could prescribe because of the excellent design and great protection from future damage to my knees why should I consider his opinion? Just because the family physician I saw when I was a teen and injured my knee basically said the exact same thing as the two doctors in the link did only to find out further damage was done because of his inaccurate diagnosis and had to be corrected by a orthopedic specialist they must be right huh? Oh and my current family doc that said I just had a bad sprain and it would clear up in a few weeks was a bit red in the face when the orthopedic called to explain the extent of the damage to my knee was a broken patella, partial tears of the ACL & MCL and significant instability in the PCL. But hey that was just his opinion.:silly:

Let me ask this, is it better to have too much protection or too little? Don't know about you but I wear a full face helmet with DOT and Snell certifications, goggles, forearm and elbow plastic, a full coverage chest/back/shoulder/upper arm and lower side chest protector, gloves, pants with hip pads, Kidney belt with lower back plastic, good boots and oh yeah my knee braces. All of this is required in my opinion.:)

Thump · Dec 17, 2001

Thanks Bill, that was what I should have based my article on. I mean my doctor told me that my knee is now stronger than it was before the surgery and that there was no need for a brace in theory. In the same breath he told me that I was to wear one at all times while riding. Well I am no doctor but I am certain that if I had been wearing a brace when I fell (doing a blazing 7mph) I would not have the trophies (scars) today.

Just out of curiosity because I have been absent for a while... What has crawled up your arse? Everything I have read of yours lately is like you have a point to prove about somethig... If you have a point lets air it out. If not then make an attempt at being normal. If you prefer e-mail me directly.

NVR FNSH · Dec 18, 2001

I just skimmed the article and I'm not sure what all the discussion is about. I've seen other articles that appear to say the same thing. I'm not convinced my CTI2 would have prevented my torn ACL/meniscus because mine was all torsional (from what I remember) and you're going to be hard pressed to convince me that any of the braces could have prevented it - the mounting schemes just don't lend themselves to totally eliminating twisting.

That said, I wear my CTI2 everytime I play volleyball or go riding because I do notice a difference in how my knee feels afterwards if I don't wear the thing. I'm also considering getting an Asterik for my 'good' - how do you indicate dripping sarcasm? - knee.

Brian

Patman · Dec 18, 2001

Isn't the Internet cool? You can find all sorts of "opinions" some even from "experts". The scary part is that taking medical and/or physical saftey advice off a web page can actually cause an individual harm and the person responsible for directing a person there or even the published "professionals" can't really be held responsible now can they? Much like watching W. E. Coyote fall off the gazillion foot high cliff then walk away, hey he walked away from it why can't I? :silly:

KawieKX125 · Dec 18, 2001

A respected Ortho that I talked to about the use of profalactic(sp?) knee braces said that they are not very beneficial, even detrimental. HE did not go into deatils(time restraints) but said in an injury bad enough to do permanent damage, the knee braces can make it worse. For some reason, in research that was done, docs found out that in extreme situations, the ligaments will actually "burst" and shred.
I am confused by it all. I would think that they would help, but cant really know for sure untill someone does a study on mx. Can we get info on MX related knee injuries anyway?

Okiewan · Dec 18, 2001

Wonder how many that make their living riding off-road DON'T wear braces? Causing more damage makes no sense to me, but hey...

There are arguments that people have died due to wearing seatbelts
There are more than enough folks that have died while wearing a helmet.

I like my odds with the belts, helmet and my braces.

XRpredator · Dec 18, 2001

Originally posted by Okiewan
I like my odds with the belts, helmet and my braces.

That's why I wear belts, helmet, and braces when I drive to work . . . ;)

(I know, smack the smartass!)

Wolf · Dec 18, 2001

Originally posted by XRpredator

That's why I wear belts, helmet, and braces when I drive to work . . . ;)

(I know, smack the smartass!)

:) :) ROTFLMAO

NVR FNSH · Dec 18, 2001

Patman - no need to get testy w/me.

An observation:
There are a lot more professional football, basketball & soccer players out there than professional motorcycle riders. How many professional 'mainstream' athletes wear knee braces? I don't see too many of them - granted they go overboard with tape:)

There are differing opinions amongst the experts. Listen to both sides and make an informed decision for yourself.

Brian

XRpredator · Dec 18, 2001

Originally posted by NVR FNSH
An observation:
There are a lot more professional football, basketball & soccer players out there than professional motorcycle riders. How many professional 'mainstream' athletes wear knee braces? I don't see too many of them - granted they go overboard with tape

Bri, ol' buddy, there's a lot more pros wearing knee braces than you think! Granted, basketball & baseball, very few, but if you look at the NFL, I'd bet over half the linemen wear 'em.

NVR FNSH · Dec 18, 2001

XRP - my defense? The cameramen don't focus on the linemen:p And I did not mention baseball players. When was the last time you heard a baseball was out due to a knee injury? I think the last one I heard was a groin pull:(

Seriously, I don't watch a whole lot of football but I haven't noticed kneebraces on the linemen. Maybe it's because the brace just kinda blends in.....

Brian

Okiewan · Dec 18, 2001

Seriously, I don't watch a whole lot of football but I haven't noticed kneebraces on the linemen. Maybe it's because the brace just kinda blends in.....

Yes it is.
If baseball was actually more than standing around scratching and spitting, they'd need them too. :eek: A lot of the "stick and ball" sport ath's don't wear them in the "speed" positions... of course ask the hundreds with new knees if they'd leave the braces off if they could do it again. What's the guy's name...Receiver for the bears a couple of years ago... Wolford? Blew BOTH in one play... no hit! I'd wager that IF he could come back, he'd wear something. If they would ALL agree to wear them...done deal. But no one is willing to give-up some speed if everyone else doesn't.

Patman · Dec 18, 2001

Didn't intend to come across as testy:o Just wanted to point out to some of our more impressionable viewers that the Internet isn't really all black and white truths.:D

Bill Hibbs · Dec 18, 2001

I'd say the majority of the line-men in college wear them. Look closely at the bowl games coming up and you'll see. Actually, seeing all the football players wearing them has made me want them more.

I'm a guy who's into "evidence" and "stats" and imperical proof but sometimes you just have to step back and look at something and just say, Yea, That makes Since. :silly:

I'm more interested in the phenomenon of people acting like butt heads, having the moderators call them on in, and then suddenly think the whole site sucks and there's a conspiracy, and Okie won't let anybody say Anything or they'll get kicked out, and Rich is so rude (wait, Rich is rude, but that's why we like him) But if anyone else is rude they get kicked out.

I managed to survive all of the election threads being One of the Five Democrats on the site and I didn't get kicked out. I never even received a warning. I don't get mad when Rich "kindly" let's me know how "mis-informed" I am about something. AND, I didn't get thrown out by Okie when I said the Sidi Boots (a huge sponser that gives the site Millions of dollars) a negative review. Am I missing something? :think

Flame Board, here we come..............

Okiewan · Dec 18, 2001

Inmate Hibbs, have you been reading RMD again? Back to the DRN brainwasher with you. We'll run 'er at 9 this time, it should take care of the that Democrat thing too. ;) Next offense? "Bottle in front a me".

:debil: Sidi....sidi.... sidi..... sidi..... :debil:

("Debil" is really the subliminal guy, put here for mind control purposes)

CRguyStan · Dec 19, 2001

Effectiveness

Here is a pro debate against the website listed. We all know how picky health insurance companies are. We also know that the CTI2 (not the Edge) is only available with a prescription. Out of those owning CTI2 braces, how many people do you think can afford 1200-1500 for one, therfor I think that the insurance companies pick up most of that bill. This would make me believe that the insurance companies think that they are effective??

NVR FNSH · Dec 19, 2001

Stan,
I think you can get the CTI2 w/o a prescription. My insurance picked up the whole bill. However, they (Cigna) were a royal PITA and would not cover the patella cup or ski boot attachment since they weren't 'medically necessary' - I beg to differ since I didn't need them before surgery. It took several calls from my ortho & the prosthetic guy to get Cigna to approve the ACL cable.

Granted, insurance companies are weighing risk vs reward BUT if insurance companies truly thought knee braces were effective (and the stats backed it up) wouldn't it be easier to get a knee brace BEFORE tearing up your knee? I'm pretty sure that a $1500 brace is bargain compared to an MRI & surgery.

I agree that in most cases a brace makes sense but in certain cases a brace may not do any good. I think my case was one of those that a brace wouldn't have helped

Brian

Bill Hibbs · Dec 19, 2001

:)

I have this sudden urge to put on a TooToo and ride around on a trials bike...You better back it down a little... ;)

I am warming up to the Sidi's though...

Patman · Dec 19, 2001

Actually if you site back and look at the numbers I'd say the insurance companies are making a good gamble with being a PITA about knee braces. Think about it. The occasional knee gets busted up and they pay out for it vs. every sports player from Pop Warner football up to the pro's coming in as getting a pair at say $1500 per person? :eek: No doubt there are instances where a brace won't help and could even cause more damage but the incidence of that is tiny. Okie tore up one of his Cells at DW '01 and was still hobbling around a bit, what would have happened with out it? Anybodies guess but I'd say it's a fair one he would have been getting cut. The bottom line is each person has to decide what works best for them, just like helemts, chest protectors, boots, seatbelts in vehicles, jack stands under a vehicle when your working on it.... the list is endless. Me? I enjoy a certian amount of risk it makes you appriciate life but there is risk and there are accidents, risk is somewhat calculated and accidents are not.

Okiewan · Dec 19, 2001

Okie tore up one of his Cells at DW '01 and was still hobbling around a bit, what would have happened with out it? Anybodies guess but I'd say it's a fair one he would have been getting cut.

Had a sore knee for about a week following that... SOOO much better than the surgery/rehab/10 weeks when I ruined the other knee (braceless). I will NEVER ride without my Cells. End of story.

yzguy15 · Dec 19, 2001

Well my insurance (Cigna also) bought me the DonJoy Defiance brace. My ortho recommended it for me to wear. I have absolutely no complaints with my brace. It seems to help with providing stability, keep my knee from going out, and also inspiring confidence. Even though I wasn't supposed to, I was back sprinting, cutting, squatting, dead lifting, etc. about 3 weeks early. That's how good I felt with my brace. I don't even notice it while riding either. It is a little hard on the tank though. And I can't figure out how to get the patella cup on there (I use a rollerblade type knee pad instead).

Brian, it surprises me that you had so much trouble. I got 3 sleeves, patella cup, and these little air filled thingys without any trouble from the Cigna. At least from what I know.... It did take forever though

NVR FNSH · Dec 19, 2001

What are the 'air filled thingys'?

Brian

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