Well, I am a now a certified idiot. I bought the Asterisk knee braces, tried them on, rode with them for a short period, and decided I could deal with the bulk of a knee brace and sent them back. I have now had 3 accidents since where I smash my right knee cap(broke it a year ago) and cannot hardly bend it again now. Luckily I didn't re-break it. I am now re-ordering them.