Love some insight. 250 v 450

[Siin]

I'd love some insight from people who have ridden both; i'm starting to look into a bike for my self and my partner Kate. I've been riding my mates '05 CRF450x a couple of times but unsure whether or not to get a 250(4 or 2stroke) or a 450 4stroke.
The crf450x is probably on the heavier side of things for me at the moment (see my details below) but will probably get up to speed pretty quickly & dont feel like buying something different in 6 months time. But also not sure if the 250 is going to be to 'skittish' for me. We'll be mainly riding dirt road/tracks or through pine/natural forest - not competition riding.

Has someone else out there bought the 250, regretted getting the smaller bike and gone up, or done the reverse and wished they'd bought the smaller bike?

I am 23 years old (have ridden on and off road for 14yrs) and Kate is 21 (never ridden before, only pillion)

1) your physical size (both height and weight are important)
Me - 6ft/183cm, 70kg
Kate - 5'9/170cm 56kg
2) How physical / aggressive are you ?
Me - a little, like to thrash around a little
Kate - newbie rider; slow and easy
3) what do you plan to ride- MX/SX tracks, woods, fields with friends or ?????
Both - woods &fields, dirt road/tracks, self made MX tracks maybe
4) Do you have any riding experience?
me - 14yrs
kate - pillion only
5) Do you think you will race ?
no
6) Are you mechanically inclined and will you be doing your own bike work?
not particularly, only very minor stuff

7) Do YOU have a preferance to a brand/ motor choice (2 or 4 stroke)?
No real preference, have had the following:
'79 Hondra XR75
'95 Suzuki TS185ER
'95 Yamaha XJ650
'99 Yamaha TRX850
'07 Suzuki Boulevard 1800/Yamaha Warrior 1700 (will be buying shortly - havent decided which)

8) Do you have a dealer close by your home that you might use and what brand(s) does he carry?
I have a mate who works for a local chain (TeamMoto) who stock all brands

9) How much ($) do you plan to spend on a bike?
For both of us - up to $10k (plus gear)

10) Do you live in California?
No - Brisbane,Australia
11) Your age?
23 & 21
12) anything else that you think would help form an opinion
i am not as fit now as i was a two years ago (took up a desk job). But looking to this as a form of exercise and intend on riding a day and half a week at least to improve.
Kate's fitter than i am, but not very strong

Im thinking of a 3/4 sized [yamaha?] 230cc trail or similar for kate and possibly a 450/4str or 250/2str/4str [Suzi/Yam/Honda]?
Doesnt have to be road legal, we've got a ute to take them out but may use a bike trailer next year...
Thoughts?

Cheers,
Nik

 

[Madmanadam]

2stroke 250, Dono if youll find alot of places to ride in brissy, but no doubt there is some...

 

[2 strokes for life]

I would say a CRF150F or 85 2 stroke bike for kate. The 230 is a pig for a begginer rider that dose not have alot of strength. 2 stroke will take longer to get used to but would make here a better rider because of the narrow powerband.

As for you, i would suggest asking your dealer if you can ride one of each kind of bike. The 250F is going to be the lightest but have the least top end power. It should produce about the same bottom end as a 250 2 stroke and the 450F will have more bottom end then both. My suggestion list for bikes.

Kate: Honda CRF150F
Honda CRF230F (possibly)
Kawasaki KX85 or KX100
Honda CR85
Suzuki RM85
Yamaha TTR-230 (possibly)
Yamaha YZ85
KTM 105XC or 105SX
KTM 85XC or 85SX

You: Honda CRF250X
Honda CRF450X
Suzuki RM250
Suzuki DR-Z400E
Kawasaki KLX450R
Yamaha YZ250
Yamaha WR250F
Yamaha WR450F.
KTM 250XC
KTM 300XC
KTM 250XC-F
KTM 450XC-F

 

[TC21]

A ktm105sx for kate. No way. This bike has alot of power and is not (NOT) beginner friendly at all. Ktm's are very fast and the parts are very expensive. I would say a CRF150F not the R. The R is a race bike as the F is a trail beginner bike.

For you, I would say a Ktm 300xcw. They are very fast.
If im not mistakin' they are the 3rd fastest enduro in the World. Ktm for ya.

(It is either the exc or the xcw that is the third fastest.)

 

[2 strokes for life]

TC21, i know Kimmy (15 year old woman i ride with) here first bike she has ever rode or had is a stock 2007 KTM 105SX. She is smaller then Kate and probably weaker and she absolutly loves it. She tried a CRF150F and 230F and said they were harder to handle in the tighter trails and they felt like tanks on any sort of track and wore here out quickly. So a KTM 105SX is still a good beginer bike as long as you keep safe and ride only to your bodies ability Kate would be fine on a 105.

I would not have my money on the KTM 300EXC or XCW for the 3rd fastest enduro in the world. Unless you have a Link to some evedence. My best bet would be a big bore 4 stroke such as Husaberg FE650, KTM 525 XCW-F, KTM 530XCW-F, Husqvarna TE510, TM 530EN, Gasgas 510EC, Sherco 5.1i, or ATK of some sort. If ti was a 2 stroke i would go with a Husqvarna WR390, KTM 550MXC, KTM 380EXC, Gasgas 300EC (six-speed), TM300EN, and finaly a Husquvarna WR250.

 

[RMZRyder]

KX 100 or KTM 105 both of these bikes are far from beginner bikes.

 

[Convert]

A while back I was in the same boat you are now, looking for a bike for the little lady. We took a ride on a CRF150R Expert (big wheel version) and a CRF230F. The 150R is a race bike, it likes to rev and will bounce off the limiter very easy. The ride height is good but she found the cockpit a little cramped. At times the 150R was a little difficult to start but I heard that a carb kit takes care of that problem. The 230F also has a great ride height and does feel a little more open. The electric start is a god send and the power is very good for a beginner. That said, the power is good for a beginner and may be outgrown quickly dependent on the rider. The suspension on the 230F is good for trails and small bumps, that's about it.
I have to make a comment about the whole narrow power band makes you a better rider comment. That is only true if you stick to bikes with narrow power bands. If you try and apply that logic to a CRF450X you will find out that narrow power band has become very broad and user friendly.
In the end it's pretty difficult to judge bikes based on other peoples opinions (other than a general starting point). I feel the best bet is to simply try a couple bikes out. Short of that, at least go sit on a few and see what you think. Hope this helps.

 

[2 strokes for life]

+1
What was i thinking. Just ride them to see witch one suits you best.

 

[TC21]

2 strokes for life, you need to take mine and RMZRyder's information.

THEY ARE NOT BEGINNER BIKES. THEY ARE FAR FROM IT!

 

[2 strokes for life]

TC21, any bike can be a good begginers bike. I lernt on a IT400 and IT175. Now if i can learn how to do on those, why not on a 105 or 100. Another girl i ride with also started on Kimmys bike. It can be done and it develops your skills very well to teach you to shift and keep in RPMs up in the corrners. With a flywheel weight on eaither of those bikes then you got the best mini sized woods bike because of the bottom end power it produces. It can be a beginner bike just like a CRF450R can be. You just ride in your limitations.

 

[TC21]

It willl take awhile to get it from slow to fast on a 105 being a beginner.

 

[RMZRyder]

If somebody is lucky enough to talk their old lady into letting them teach her to ride and you put her on some bike like a KX100 and it puts her on her butt a few times she will become easily discouraged, and you will be stuck explaining narrow powerbands and kickstarting to someone who no longer cares. A TTR125 with e-start and a soft power band are perfect. The repercussions of your statements on this forum are larger than you realize.

 

[TC21]

Exactly. Any 125 or 150 four stroke that is a trail bike is ideal. Smooth power delivery with the magic button.

 

[zoommx]

As far as the 2 stroke/4 stroke, my next offroad only bike will be a 2 stroke. I had a yz250 2 stroke, then got my Cannondale and have also ridden a Honda CRF450. Both 4 strokes are much heavier feeling and harder to turn. Too much responsive power also. I think the best choice I could've made might have been a 200 or 250 or 300 GasGas or KTM woods bike.
My kid has a KX100. I wouldn't recommend it for a beginner. There are better beginner bikes, although the 100 would be a better beginner bike than the mx 85's. A KX100 also wouldn't get "outgrown" as quickly as "beginner" bikes.