Manufactured Homes - Good, bad, ugly?

[MikeT]

robwbright

My brother in law has a modular house. Being a Structural Engineer from what I see tha houses are built pretty well provided they are installed properly. The 2x6 walls are great and make a big difference. The things I noticed are the bathroom fixtures, door knobs around the house and other little things look cheap. I'm sure you can upgrade those and get nicer ones which would add some polish to the overall package. As far as the floors, all you need to do is make sure that they have adequate (if you have no basement) pier spacing so the floor joist spans don't get too long. If you go for a basement then you have to make sure they tell you what type of deflection they are designing for. It also might help to ask how much it would cost to get a stiffer floor. Sometimes the upcharge might not be that much. Doesn't hurt to ask.

One thing I can say for sure is I wish my 1989 stick built house was built as good as my B-I-Ls modular (minus the cheap fixtures and door knobs).

Mike

 

[Treejumper]

Well friends of mine deliver modular homes for SMI (Structural Modular Inc). These guys. They seemed pretty good and heard nothing but good things about them. Seen lots of the houses in person and know several people that own them. All good reviews! But with everything there are bad experiences, one being my sisters house from them. She had the house below built in July and was completed in-plant in less than 2 weeks and 6 more weeks on site. Looked great and they even kept bring people over to show it off to. Not even a year later, there are cracks on every wall, doors dont work right and gaps in the windows. They wouldnt return phone calls and once got out to view it they said "thats not right". We attribute the demise of the house to the fact that they were building a hotel at the same time as her house and pulled all the "quality" worker to do the hotel and put all the newbies and low quality workers on her house. They installed the ductwork in the basement below the floor joist thus making a finished basement out of the question unless you want a 5' 6" ceiling height. Would i order a house from them, doubt it, and not a 2 story one with a open loft plan.

 

[Treejumper]

Some more.

 

[MikeT]

Looks to me like bad soil compaction let the house settle excessively. When the soil is not compacted properly you will get differential settlement that will cause what you see in those above pictures.

 

[Treejumper]

Thats my thoughts on it too but even still alot of the finish work (drywall, trim, etc) is not what you'd expect for a $180K house. Here's some of the foundation work. The basement walls are Superior walls. Clicky I dont believe in their no-footer needed philosophy. It goes against everything i've learned and read in drafting school.

 

[Okiewan]

So what's going to happen? That's a freakin' crime.

 

[oldguy]

We built a modular home back in 1988 and I was very happy with the quality. I basically designed the house (2000 sq ft , 2 story, with cathedral ceiling in great room) and then the contractor took the plans to the company that prefabbed it. What was fun was the day they came to put it up on the capped basement. 3 semi trailers, a large crain, 6 carpenters, and 12 hours later we had a house in place complete with windows. Next day they came in and sheeted the roof. The electrical, plumbing, roofing, and ductwork were done on site then drywalled. We were in the completed house in 45 days from the ground being broken. Had a couple minor drywall seam cracks but that was it. I had worked construction a few years before so I watched the work pretty close and felt it was equal or better then stick built. The prefab walls and floors were built inside out of the elements and by having basically a weather proof shell up imediately also helped minimize weather related problems on site. I hated seeing half built stick homes sitting for days at a time being rained on knowing that exposed wood was soaking it all in.

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

That pick of the busted drywall seam around the perimeter where the floors meet is horrendous,insist on 5/8 rock on your exterior and ceilings,first coat with durabond 45 ONLY,just like sheathing stagger joints and none under 4 feet,screws around perimeter every 10 to 12 inches,across the field every 16 inches. Glue on drywall is lame,but holds the paper on well! Carpenters hang drywall,not painters,they tape. Any dwelling should have a foundation. Short of setting on a mountain the ground is to unstable,steel in the footings is a plus and the same with any poured concrete,concrete block has no load capabilities from the side,they use pilings on skyscrapers.Backfill with 3/4 washed stone. We have some rules around here but the electricians and plumbers are the only ones required to be licensed,a truck full of tools and bonding and you can build homes! Bonding and local permits can be had by phone and money in under an hour. The best one of all is a homeowner can do anything he wants in the house he lives in,menards loves him and creates endless and interesting work for me!

 

[thorman75]

You should see what happens when some moron tar papers over the roof vents and dosent cut them open.Then puts in a drain tile and back fills it with clay but no stone,or sets the foundation 2' too low with >0 pitch away from the house.

 

[XRpredator]

You should see what happens when some moron tar papers over the roof vents and dosent cut them open.Then puts in a drain tile and back fills it with clay but no stone,or sets the foundation 2' too low with >0 pitch away from the house.

Methinks Thorman *has* seen this happen . . .

 

[thorman75]

Ever see mushrooms growing up out of the carpet or out of drywall.I have, but when the Newton County Indiana Accessors Office viewed my house they sent me a letter which I still have, stating that "they saw no evidence of any of the damage we were claiming".
Ask Bob "whenfoxforksruled" he has seen the pictures and AJ was in that house. Man I get so PO talking about this, had to sell my KTM 525 so we could move........
meanwhile the builder is driving around here in a $50k BMW
la de da like nothing happened

 

[Patman]

Yea - and it's also the realtor's job to take several % of the deal.

I was recently involved in a case where the realtor had double agency and totally screwed the buyer - sold them a house that had not been properly inspected and it was filled with ecoli - worst case the Health Department had ever seen.

Personally, I'd prefer to buy direct from seller, but. . . Anyway, since it's a small town and my boss knows everyone and is the (part time) county court judge, I think he can pull some strings - thus why I want to get him involved.

The percentage is how they make their money, I believe you mentioned something similar to this in this thread as well related to your compensation? BTW what is the typical percentage of most law suits? Me thinks a bit more than 2%-3% an realitor pulls on a transaction.

So I am guessing the uninspected home was approved by the mortage company? Not very likely. False documents maybe but I have never heard of any company willing to plop down their $$ with out some assurances in the form of professional inspection and property valuation. How would something like this be handled if the sale is made with pulled strings? Who do you go back to if something is not as it was represented? Usually a broker will have insurance that they don't want to have to use to coverthat type of issue.

Don't cheap out on what is the largest purchase you will ever make and that includes representation from someone knowledgable of the processes. I know lawyers much like engineers and several other "professionals" always want to believe they are quite able to take care of simple things like this since they have education that they believe bestows all knowledge of all things to them but the cold hard facts are quite different. Jack of all, master of none will always cost you $$$.

 

[oldguy]

When we bought this present house this summer the mortgage company did not require a home inspection but with my money on the line I did. I hired a reputable inspector that worked for me only. He turned the inspection report over to no one but me so I could make the final informed decision.
As far as realtor this time I hired my own agent. We signed a contract that we would only work with him and he would represent our interests during negotiations. When we wrote up the offer it was contingent on the listing agent splitting the commision with him (as is the standard proceedure any time a nonlisting agent brings in a buyer). If we had not signed a contract with him he would have worked with us to find a home but in the end would have been negotiating in the sellers interest because they are ultimately paying him.
I am sure the seller would also prefer to save the commision by selling direct but there are so many variables (most caused by suit happy attorneys) that the layperson doesn't have the training to handle them. The realtor is trained to lead you through the legal woods and earns his percentage in that way. His 3 to 6% (may be slightly higher in some areas) covers marketting, paperwork, office/staff costs, and also gets split with the agent that brings in the buyer. You feel you are entitled to a fee (set or percentage) for doing your job because you have special training but then you cheap out and think the realtor doesn't deserve a fee for his services :| .
You want your boss to come in and pull strings by way of his professional stature in the community? Personally I wouldn't think to have my employer negotiate for me unless I was compensating him for his time and knowledge. I also do not feel I would want to reveal my personal finances to an employer.
Good luck with the home purchase however it shakes out. It is great going home and knowing it is your home

 

[knowiam]

Yea - and it's also the realtor's job to take several % of the deal. QUOTE]

Do you work for free? What are you charging the Doctor with the bent rock flipper? :rotfl:

Did the house really suffer from ecoli bacteria, or could it have been some other type of malody....like, Mold?



Ken

 

[thorman75]

I had mold,lots of it,seven diffrent types including cladiosporia ans strachybotris(toxic black) which I know now as a nursing student are bad dudes. Cladiosporia can grow in your lungs and strachybotris gets in your blood and attacks the CNS.
But that was MY BIG MISTAKE NOT HIRING AN INSPECTOR,the house was brand new was covered by warranty so we thought we were safe. But even if we did what are the odds they would have noticed the ridge vents sealed off?So what could I do then sue the inspector too.Its catch 22 all the way around.

 

[thorman75]

How would something like this be handled if the sale is made with pulled strings? Who do you go back to if something is not as it was represented? Usually a broker will have insurance that they don't want to have to use to coverthat type of issue.
Don't count on it, Century 21 was included in our lawsuit.Nothing but a joke. :|

 

[robwbright]

Do you work for free? What are you charging the Doctor with the bent rock flipper? :rotfl:

Did the house really suffer from ecoli bacteria, or could it have been some other type of malody....like, Mold?



Ken

Please think a little deeper about the situation.

No, I don't work for free - and I don't think the realtor should either. I also don't represent both the Plaintiff and the Defendant in a lawsuit - which is what realtor's do in many situations.

The other poster said that the realtor was to represent my interests. However, the realtor cannot really represent my best interest and the other parties best interest - my interest is to pay the lowest price I can and the seller's interest is to make as much money as possible.

I've never done this before, but if I understand it right, in general (with exceptions) the realtor gets a percentage of the selling price, correct? If so, then it is in the realtor's best interest to get as much money as possible for the seller, which makes the realtor's interest also in direct conflict with mine.

And yes, it was ecoil - tested at least twice by the Health Department. The family went to the hospital over it and could suffer serious long term health issues.

There were animal parts put in the well by the prior owners of the house and the house was washed down with that water.

The Health department said that they tested the water, but the evidence is that they didn't.

In that case, we'd sue the seller and the agent/company - but the seller didn't have much money, so the agent/company would probably bear the brunt of the suit.

We probably wouldn't sue the health dept because we need their testimony to prove the case.

 

[robwbright]

You want your boss to come in and pull strings by way of his professional stature in the community? Personally I wouldn't think to have my employer negotiate for me unless I was compensating him for his time and knowledge. I also do not feel I would want to reveal my personal finances to an employer.

I don't know how big your town is, but in these towns of less than 5000 people, knowing someone can be the difference between approval of a loan and denial of a loan. I have no qualms about using his influence.

I've got nearly 6 figure school loan debt, which makes me a bit of a financial risk on a loan - even if I will have a second license to practice law a month from now.

I know pretty much everything about our office's finances, and my boss knows pretty much everything about mine. We're FRIENDS, which is why he offered to make me partner the other day. However, that's probably too complicated for my financial situation at the moment - it would be more money in the long run, but with my debt structure, I need the hourly pay.

We have 1 secretary/receptionist ($6.50/hr), one legal assistant with 15 years experience ($12.00/hr), one abstractor with 30 years experience ($13.50/hr), and myself.

Even with only four (4) employees, our office requires $190,000.00 per year to cover overhead. That's a LOT of $2000 domestic retainers - or one REALLY BIG judgment to break even. My boss made a really low amount the last two years - let's put it this way - if he wasn't making $62,500 as part time judge, he'd be depending on his wife's income as a financial advisor.

However, he's also made $300,000.00 in a couple years out of the last 15, so it's hard to predict a small firm's income in a small town.

 

[robwbright]

The percentage is how they make their money, I believe you mentioned something similar to this in this thread as well related to your compensation? BTW what is the typical percentage of most law suits? Me thinks a bit more than 2%-3% an realitor pulls on a transaction.

So I am guessing the uninspected home was approved by the mortage company? Not very likely. False documents maybe but I have never heard of any company willing to plop down their $$ with out some assurances in the form of professional inspection and property valuation. How would something like this be handled if the sale is made with pulled strings? Who do you go back to if something is not as it was represented? Usually a broker will have insurance that they don't want to have to use to coverthat type of issue.

We charge 25-40% of contingent fees, but the risk we bear is infinitely higher than the realtor's. For example, a medical malpractice case can easily cost the office $40,000.00 to get to trial - and if it goes to trial you have less than 50% chance of winning.

Regardless of what you hear in the news, 99% of attorneys will not take a frivolous med mal case to trial - or at all, for that matter. In the county I live in, the hospital runs the county. However, the hospital is notorious for cutting off the wrong leg and leaving instruments inside patients.

Yet, the last 8 med mal cases to go to trial have resulted in 7 defense verdicts and a plaintiff's verdict of wrongful death - the jury gave the family $17,000.00.

In the $17,000.00 case, two plaintiff's attorneys worked up the case for two years and sat in trial for a week and got 40% of $17,000.00. In the defense verdict cases, the attorneys lost anywhere from $10,000-50,000.00.

I doubt many realtors are losing that much money on house deals. Would you rather make the realtor's percentage with basically no risk or try to make $100,000.00 while risking a 60-80% probability of losing $40,000.00?

Of course, the attorney can make money by the hour if he can find clients who have enough money to pay by the hour (not many around here). Or, the attorney can make some money on domestic cases (a real pain because the people are so emotional) or car wrecks (relatively easy money, but counsel for the ins co. usually wants to bill the file for a year or two before making a reasonable offer).

BTW, the house was inspected (on paper at least - the evidence is that some/all of the papers were falsified by someone.) The mortgage company did approve the "inspected" house.

 

[robwbright]

Anyway, here's what we're looking at tomorrow - nice house, location good (5 minutes from work, nice neighborhood). Bad news - very small lot:

http://www.larryconrathrealty.com/property/propertyviews2.html?num=8112

More pics

http://www.larryconrathrealty.com/sbarga/homes557.html

 

[Patman]

Rob,
The only way an agent would represent both sides is if you let them. Just as Oldguy pointed out it's very simple to get an exclusive agreement all you have to do is ask. The agent doesn't get paid a cent if the deal doesn't go so most will be very aggressive in getting the lowest reasonable price for you. Even in a one horse town there is bound to be more than one real estate agent available. Home inspectors are licensed and bonded so if they don't catch something and it causes you a problem go after them. The small amount of their fee should bring plenty of peace of mind for a big purchase like this.

Like we've been trying to point out this is a very different world you are entering in to. Hiring people that know the ropes and are representing your best interests is what would be prudent when going to court right? Same applies here.

 

[Patman]

Check with the real estate board but I'm sure false documents could be a bit of an issue LOL!

Do you really want me to flip the percentage game around on ya'? :laugh:

BTW you will also need to have the property surveyed. I'm sure your boss can do this too but it would be best to let somebody with a surveyors license do this as well. Yeah I know nickle and dime ya' to death :laugh:

 

[thorman75]

Yeah we paid the lawyer cash. He even offered to write a letter to Fidelity Investments so I could tap into my 401K,(I had already borrowed all I could) so nice of him.So he got paid, the builder made his money when we bought the house,the realtor got paid, the builders lawyer got paid, the only loser was myself and my wife.I am a Honorably Discharged veteran who worked 30 years in a steelmill, married to the same women for 32 years, raised 3 kids, put 2 thru college, both of my brothers are Veterans one died after Vietnam, my father stormed Omaha beach. I used to believe in this country, not anymore.

 

[Patman]

thorman, that's just an amazing situation you went through with your house :| Totally amazing that with all of those issues you still ended up on the short end. It seems like the legal system failed in a big way yet the lawyers got paid? Here I was starting to believe they all worked for peanuts and hoped for a few table scraps to make soup... NOT.

Rob, contrary to what Holiday Inn Express might promote on TV they can't make anybody an expert in anything.

 

[Treejumper]

So what's going to happen? That's a freakin' crime.

They sent someone out to fix the problem. My sister said its not a one day fix. The guy showed up and said they've never seen a house in this bad of shape. Guess some higher ups are suppose to come out and inspect it. Sister wants a new house cause they would have to gut most of this one to access the connection joints and pull all the windows.