marathon man

[maxrevs666]

Hi all, so after the usual christmas waistline expansion extravaganza, I have decided rather than making the usual half assed attempt at a lifestyle change, I would, with the help of a buddy begin to train more readily in order to compete in a half marathon at the start of June , with hopes to complete a full marathon in approximately 12 moths time. Has anyone here ever trained for and completed something like this? I have gotten lots of information on the web about training regimes etc, but I always like to have that bit of personal knowlege/opinion.

 

[JD_MXRacer]

i have never trained for a marathon but here are some general endurance training tips from me, an endurance athlete myself.

Make sure you have a decent pair of shoes to run in, dont go too cheap in this area. Riding a bike is always easier on the knees than running, or running in the grass is better than on concrete. Always start and end a workout with stretching and a warm up, like 2 min. of jump roping. Always drink more water than you think you'll need. Dont just run, do some workouts also, having a strong body is also important when it comes to endurance.

These are all I can think of off the top of my head. ill find some more.

 

[BadgerMan]

Has anyone here ever trained for and completed something like this?

…..been running for almost twenty years. I have raced most every popular distance including three marathons. The marathon is such a unique challenge and most of the clichés you hear are true (half way point at twenty miles, etc, etc). The preparation and the race can break the will of the toughest competitor. Preparation is the key to a successful race as well as avoiding injuries. Some things that I have learned…..mostly the hard way:

1. Get the right shoes. Don’t just buy an expensive pair and think that they will be a better shoe for you. Go to a running shoe store. Have a professional gait analysis done. Get the right shoe for your foot and stride regardless of price. You may end up needing a very expensive pair OR a cheaper pair. Don’t get hung up on price, style, or brand when you are shopping.

2. Learn all you can about fueling. You will need to consume calories when you train for and race longer distances. Also, your needs change as you increase distance. Consider a protein blended source when you run more than a couple hours…..to avoid lean muscle mass cannibalization. Don’t just assume that Gu Gel or Gatorade will meet your needs in a three hour run because it worked for a 10K.

3. Learn all you can about hydration. Don’t just blindly “drink before you get thirsty”. Newer runners or slower runners who take four-plus hours to complete a marathon are at a greater risk for hyponatremia.

4. Learn to stretch properly. A yoga class will do wonders. You will need to become disciplined about stretching when you increase your distances as runners lose much of their natural flexibility and you need to really work to stay flexible.

5. Leave your ego at home when you train. Stop and walk when you have to. Stop and stretch when you have to. Resist the urge to run fast during training runs unless you are doing a speed work out.

6. The weekly long run is the key……don’t skip it or short cut it. For the marathon, you will probably work up to 3 long runs of 20-22 miles over a six week period. The long run should be done at a slow (conversational) pace and should not exceed 50% of your weekly mileage total. Hence, a 20 mile long run should be done during a 40+ mile week. Find a good training schedule and stick with it. They are all pretty close to the same. Hal Higdon’s website has some good schedules that I have used. For a half marathon, consider doing some “over distance” long runs (15 miles or so). For the marathon, 22 miles is about the maximum.

7. Trust your taper. Your training should culminate in a two or three week taper prior to the race. If you have done everything right, you will be very anxious to run long and hard during those weeks. DON’T! Save it for the morning of the race.

8. Lastly, listen to your body and stop if you are hurting. Take time off if you need to and be willing to postpone the race if you get injured. Don’t run every day as junk miles do more harm than good. I generally run every other day, schedule permitting. Do some cross training on the off days. Core strength is very important for maintaining form when you get tired.

Have fun.

 

[maxrevs666]

thanks badger, a long reply with lots of good information. I sincerely appreciate it. Training begins next monday, im starting this week with a little light jogging over short distances with a few hills so it won't be a total system shock next week!

 

[2strok4fun]

I havent, but my wife has done a several full marathons now. She started by joining a running club that was training for a specific marathon (San Diego Rock and roll) and had a specific training plan as far as mileages and such. She trains on her own (with a friend) now.

THe only thing I can think of to add to badgers info is, CORE STRENGTH. Mix in plenty of core strength type training for any endurance goals.

 

[BadgerMan]

thanks badger, a long reply with lots of good information. I sincerely appreciate it. Training begins next monday, im starting this week with a little light jogging over short distances with a few hills so it won't be a total system shock next week!

Ideally, you should increase your mileage at a rate of no greater than 10% per week. This is not always possible but it is still a good rule of thumb and will help your to avoid overuse type injuries. I have always preached to new runners that your heart and lungs will very quickly develop the ability to take you farther than your legs will carry you. It’s so easy to get over zealous and end up with one or more of the many overuse injuries that runners suffer with. So, take it slow and have fun with it.

All that said, it’s a great goal that you have set for yourself. It will be a life changing experience for sure. If you are at all like me or the dozens of friends I have made along the way, you will get hooked on running and won’t be able to stop.

Keep us posted regarding your progress. :cool:

She started by joining a running club that was training for a specific marathon (San Diego Rock and roll) and had a specific training plan as far as mileages and such.

Great advice! It is so much nicer to do three hour long runs with a group of friends.

Mix in plenty of core strength type training for any endurance goals.

.......really helps your riding too!

 

[friar tuck]

Get a H/R monitor, learn how to use it and USE IT. Badger gave you good advice. I ran XC and track in HS and college, and a H/R monitor and the knowledge to use it properly is very powerful. I never ran a marathon, but often during XC in our base building cycle, I'd put in 24 milers on Sundays.

 

[fatcat216]

worthy goals

hey maxrevs666

I've completed 6 marathons (and lesser distances), and one half ironman (and other tris.)

Badgerman has given you sound advice.

Please tell us about your goal race, and what your current mileage is, your age, and what sort of fitness base you currently have. As JD_Mx said, invest in some really good shoes, and plan to throw them out or retire them to lawn duty every three months. No racing flats! I don't care who you are or what your gene pool or what your crazy running god-like friends think of them.

If you'd like I can hook you up with some links that I found valuable when I have a bit more time. I'd highly recommend Jeff Galloway's book as a resource as you are starting out. I did a modified Galloway/Hal Higden approach, although both of those programs evolved quite a bit over the years and as Badgerman said, there are plenty of training schedules. For the marathon I'd recommend you not subscribe to any schedules where your weekly mileage peaks at less than 45. Anywhere from 40-55, depending on how you are feeling is best. Less is more if you are fighting injury and want to get to the starting line of the event. For the half marathon- well, I'd need to know where you are at, today, before I'd make a mileage recommendation for you to reach by June. That really isn't much time! ;)

Google either marathon or half marathon, and you'll have more than ample information. The important thing to remember is right now you are building the foundation- the base. I'd recommend you start dabbling numbers and plans and doing the math. You'll want fall back weeks for recovery, as well as the taper. Never do two hard days back to back. Something I defied and wound up with a permanent leg injury. You will feel like a god, and invincible and want to defy this advice. Go ahead, it is awful fun. But be warned. It is at that moment you feel like a god when you'll want to give yourself pause, and rest. This is all mental to overcome the physical, but you have to be smart.

You'll have lots of solid support here. We're all more than happy to help keep you motivated and answer questions.

A very worthy goal. You've got the right concept by planning on a year of base building. Sorry if this is wordy, but I get really excited when people set cool goals for themselves.

Tell us more, and keep us posted on your progress! :cool:

 

[maxrevs666]

Just a quick update, I drove the circuits we are going to be running last night and measured the distances as accurately as possible (using the trip meter in the car). we established 2, 3, and 5 mile circuits which can be linked up for longer or shorter runs and different scenery. On saturday I am going to a specialist store that can do gait analysis to purchase running shoes that will be most suitable for wat I need. The training programme I am going to use can be seen on runrepublic.ie
I will be doing five weeks of the beginners 10K programme before starting into the beginners half marathon programme. Again, thanks for all the information and help! Training starts Monday Night.

 

[Timmay#678]

Hi, what 1/2 marathon are ya training for? I've been doing athletics for the last 3 years and have been doing motocross for a year. I have definitely noticed the athletics has helped my motocross, when everyone else is knackered at the end of a 20 min race I'm still going strong and can pick up a few places, for that alone its well worth running for.

I haven't done a full marathon yet, however i ran the last 12 miles of the dublin marathon in october with a friend who was doing one for the first time. He's a fairly good runner who had been doing the steady 30 miles a week with me before, for the marathon he built up to longer 2 hour runs. His longest run was 2 3/4 hours (about 18miles). In the actual marathon he "hit the wall" badly at 19miles, i brought him along for another 3miles (slowly), but he had to drop out then. My main point being that the marathon is not easy at all, and you really need to get the training and distance in (training runs of up to 22miles before the marathon). The training will be as tough as the race itself, its not easy getting up and doing a 3 hour training run on a sunday morning.

I've done lots of 5k/10k and a few 1/2 marathons, and i have to say running is a very enjoyable sport. You have to put lots of work in and it can be mentally very draining but the great feeling of achievement at the end of races is well worth it. Having a training partner is definitely the key to keeping the training up, if you're training on your own, you'll end up putting back you run or not bothing because of the weather etc.

Anyway, while the rest of the mx lads I know have been sitting on their ass for the last few months with the bad weather here in Ireland, I've been out running the whole time and have been up in gormonston track the last few saturdays. I'm doing the Clonroach H&H next weekend and I know all the training will keep me going for the 3 hours.

 

[maxrevs666]

Hi Timay, firts time I've spotted a fellow Irishman on here. the 1/2 marathon Im training for is actually being one half of a relay team for the 2008 cork city marathon. The reason we said we'd do a relay was so we'd have a partner to train with. Im not a complete stranger to training as I did a Triathlon about 18 months back before a snowboarding holiday, but I have to put my hands up and admit I've let my fitness slide all the way back to square one and maybe even further. I feel the 13 odd miles is probably a more realistic target for only 19 weeks training. I'm determined to do it even if I have to crawl the distance! the end goal is to complete the full marathon some time towards the end of 2009 before i hit my 30th birthday.

 

[maxrevs666]

Update time. Its the morning after my first run and my quads are slightly stiff, only mild discomfort when coming down stairs but otherwise I feel great. I did 2.2 miles in 24 minutes flat, which was at very gentle pace, only jogging really, but I want to ease myself into it.

 

[maxrevs666]

for anyone who is still interested, I have nearing the end of my warm up period, I have ran 2 miles, every second night for the last week and a half. I am surprised to be seeing some results already, my time for the run has dropped by almost 2 minutes, and my legs don't feel very tired the morning after either. As an added bonus, I was out on the CRF at the weekend and had an extra long day of it without feeling as tired as I usually would. Im very encouraged by this and am looking forward to starting the half marathon programme proper next monday (4th February)

 

[fatcat216]

Very nice.

Please keep posting how each week goes. There have been several threads on DRN with people wanting to lose weight/quit smoking etc.
This is exactly the right kind of information for someone to know how it is done.

Good job. What are you doing for (core and leg) strengthening & flexibility? Yoga ForAthletes is a really great dvd if you have had any experience with yoga, as the form is great, and time in each pose appropriate.

Thanks for the updates!

 

[maxrevs666]

at the moment, (on my off days) im doing some light weights for my upper body, (shoulders, arms and chest). for my abs Im doing a 30 minute tae bo dvd that really works the stomach. I did feel a little discomfort in my lower back, so I have started doing some light arches (where you lie flat on the ground and arch your back up by about 2 inches). I am very concious of moderating the amount I do however, Its happened me in the past that I would lanch into a fitness regime only to lose interest after 2 weeks. Before i started the programme I made a few adjustments to my eating habits for 2 weeks before exercising, I now eat breakfast every morning, something I never would have done before, I take my own lunch to work with me and try to keep better track of my evening meal portion size. junk is out completely and alcohol is cut way back (I'm not a saint ;) ) luckily my wife is helping me along the way and I have a training partner too, which really makes a big difference when its time to get off the couch and hit the road.

 

[Timmay#678]

Good going, it's not easy keeping up the training with the weather here at the moment. I'm just down from a mountain race in wicklow this morning, it was horrible weather, hail stones and unbelievable wind on the top of the mountain.

I changed my eating habits a bit when I started running, nowadays I can't go out the door in the morning without a proper breaky, Supper is always high carbs pasta/rice etc. It all just comes naturally to me, I couldn't imagine going back to eating crap like sweet/fizzy drinks all day like I use to. I've cut back on the amount of booze aswell now, I still have a binge session about one a month but nothing like back in college.

I'm only really starting to do workouts for motocross now, last year I just relied on my athletics fitness for when i was racing mx, but there's too many back/neck/upper body muscles that athletics just doesnt improve.

 

[maxrevs666]

Just a quick update (if anyone is interested) to note that my running partner has injured himself (shin splits) so Im now going solo. I have found that an mp3 player is a handy tool as I use it to judge how far along the trail I am when a song starts / ends.

 

[fatcat216]

Sin Splints cures.

Good job Maxrevs666. Yes we're interested. Are you kidding? Do you know how many of these guys wish they had your motivation? You're a great example.

You and your partner need to incorporate a very very easy exercise into your program to get rid of shin splints. (He/she also should make sure they aren't wearing too light weight of trainers. If they are one who is bigger, or just has poor structural issues, those light trainers are death.)

The simple exercise is this. Find a wall. Stand with your shoulders against the wall. Put your feet one and a half to two feet out. (more if you are taller). Your hips will no longer touch the wall, and your heals and shoulders will be supporting your weight. Now, lift the balls of your feet (toe end). Do this every every day.

Exercise two: duck walk. Basically, you are walking 50 steps on the heals of your feet.
You should alternate this with toe walking. (ie. walk as if you were in a lady in high heals- but I emphasize shorter strides and as high up as on the balls of your feet as you can get.)

Stretch three:
Take your shoes off, and sit basically on your feet (and shins) with your toes and feet pointing out long behind you. If you feel knee pressure you can stick a towel behind your knees to sit on.

I'd highly recommend you look for the dvd Yoga For Athletes. (However it won't have any of the above.)

I've got more for you, but it is too much for one post. Have your friend do these right away. You should to. These are goofy exercises but for the beginning runner are tried and true. You'll need to attend to your ankles, hip flexors, and muscles which attach to the inner groin/lower ab. (This last one has put down many of my ultramarathoner friends. It isn't pretty, but you shouldn't have issues with it this early in the game. It's a big miles thing.)

 

[fatcat216]

p.s. Trail running in the rain is my favorite. Not great for mp3 players, alas.

 

[maxrevs666]

"p.s. Trail running in the rain is my favorite. Not great for mp3 players, alas."

Aha! , I purchased a cheap waterproof running top with sealed pockets in the christmas sales and after a little McGuyver work with a scissors i have "engineered" it so that I can run my headphones up the jacket lining and into my ears which are covered by my cap.

patent pending, all rights reserved! ;)

 

[BadgerMan]

Ditto on the duck walking and the toe raises!

Keep up the good work!

 

[maxrevs666]

Quick update time: did the last of my two mile runs last night and feel great - the mileage increases steadily from here on out - 3 miles on wednesday night and five on saturday - the longest distance I've ever ran. below is an excerpt of an email I just recieved from my training partner (ex-partner?)


"Ah, no like.... I emailed you there this morning. Right knee is f****d, left isn't as bad. I'd say I'll have to go to the physio there tomorrow. From what I can see online it sounds like medial collateral ligament injury but the info is sketchy at best. Balls like"
:ahhh:

 

[BadgerMan]

Over use injuries involving the knees are very common. I have dealt with knee problems off and on for years and the right knee tends to be worse due to a leg length discrepancy (about 1cm) that I did not know I had until about a year ago. I now wear custom made orthotic inserts in my running shoes to compensate. Nonetheless, I still struggle with an occasional bout of runner’s knee (chondromalacia) as well as IT band tightness. Quad strengthening helps with the chondromalacia and stretching and/or massage helps the IT band tightness. It’s odd since I can go for a casual 5 miler and suffer terribly. Then, a week later I can go all out in a long distance race and not have a bit of pain before, during, or after. Cold weather seems to magnify both conditions. Also, odd as this may sound, I think training with others bothers my knees as I change my natural stride to accommodate their speed. Running with slower runners for extended periods seems to cause me the most pain. My knees feel best when I just go out and run naturally and don’t think about my pace or stride.

You and your partner may consider finding someone who can do a proper biomechanical and gait analysis. It’s a good preventive measure rather than having to learn all these lessons the hard way like I have.

Keep up the good work but be patient and progress slowly.

 

[fatcat216]

BadgerMan makes a lot of good points, Maxrev. As I believe you are much younger than he, most of these things are surmountable with some prudence and patience. Time(youth) and low miles are on your side.

Many of my friends have gone with custom orthotics. A high quality insert can help be beneficial for less dollars.

Gait analysis is a good idea, but aside from helping select shoes, did nothing to keep me out of the woods, but again, I'm about 20 years older than you and infinitely more beat up. Besides the mandatory strengthening and stretching, being careful with mileage increases will help immensely. Take mandatory fall back weeks to let your body adapt. Adaptation occurs with REST! Did your partner wreck this ligament doing something other than running? It's too early in the game for that particular kind of injury, unless he's racking up bigger miles than you or increasing mileage too quickly. Anyway, enough playing a doctor on the Internet. What's important is that you are healthy. Be prudent...

(And keep reporting!) ;) :cool:

p.s. Badgerman, there is nothing at all odd about your analysis. Unnatural gait modification could be a culprit in your flair-ups. Good conversation/company can be worth a little pain at times. :nod:

Other things that can lead to IT Band and knee issues- running on the camber all the time. (ie. The same side of a crowned road- especially true if you have real or functional leg length discrepencies.) Likewise, track workouts run without alternating clockwise/counterclockwise will quickly cause problems, even at low miles, high or low intensity.

And the wrong shoes. Have I mentioned shoes?? lol.

 

[fatcat216]

p.s. Bad genes are also a culprit in all this knee, IT and injury stuff. Luck of the chromosome draw. In my case I was doubly blessed- mediocrity AND lack of durability!! I got one 3:30 26.2 in before I fell completely to pieces though! woo hoo. Although I sulked and completely didn't appreciate it at the time. ha ha. Typical angst ridden marathoner. Always wanting to go faster.

Falling apart freed my time up for dirtbikes however. :nod: Nothing wrong with that plan!