MIG or TIG

[CaptainObvious]

Greetings.

After breaking mounting brackets on my tractor front loader for the second time this year, I've decided to acquire some welding skills. I'm not looking to make welding art, just repair stuff and the occasional "I think I can make that" project.

There seems to be a pecking order to welding equipment. If I understand things correctly, it appears to be:

oxy-acetylene
TIG
MIG (solid wire)
MIG (flux-wire)

A guy I work with suggested MIG with Argon as a set-up that will handle 99% of what I want to do. Looks like I can acquire that equipment for less then $500.

Any thoughts?

 

[Patman]

A MIG box with gas will do most anything you need just not as artfully as TIG. Buy a GOOD setup and you'll have good welds and less headache. I am setup for steel, stainless steel, and aluminum. I've run my box with both gas & flux setups and the flux is a bit messier but good for heavier steel, the gas seup makes much cleaner welding and my son has even used it (with supervision) from the time he was 11. Again look for a good quality system lik Lincoln, Miller or Hobart as well as a decent auto helmet.

 

[smb_racing]

Oxy welding isn't used as much anymore, it's the same basic process as tig just using gas for the heat instead of electric. For the home hobbyist/weekend repairman a MIG is the best choice.

If you do a lot of farm repairs I would even suggest an old AC/DC stick welder, takes a little time and practice to catch on to but it yields a very strong weld on thicker materials with a single pass.

 

[Ol'89r]

If you do a lot of farm repairs I would even suggest an old AC/DC stick welder, takes a little time and practice to catch on to but it yields a very strong weld on thicker materials with a single pass.

Gotta agree with smb.

For maximum penetration and strong welds on mild steel a stick welder is the way to go. They can be found very easily for not very much money.

Wire welders are fast to use and produce a nice bead but they don't get the penetration of a stick welder.

TIG is good for aluminum, stainless, mag, ti and all mild and special alloy steel. Much slower to use but produces a beautiful weld bead and good penetration. Most good tig machines are very expensive.

Oxy-acteylene works well for thin steel or brazing and heating up cases.

Just my $ .02 :cool:

 

[Rich Rohrich]

Junk - You can check current market pricing at:

- www.cyberweld.com
- www.weldingmart.com (Great deals on Lincoln Gear)
- www.indianaoxygen.com (my favorite for buying welding gear).
- www.usaweld.com (HTP direct source)

Miller, Lincoln, Hobart, HTP, and Thermal Dynamics are all brands you can count on for a good product.

 

[Patman]

Man I remember welding railroad spikes in high school with an OLD Lincoln arc welder. We had to make "sculpture" so I used the oxy rig to heat up the spikes and pound them in to submission and then welded them in to a snow skier. I also remember several guys in my class that couldn't do it no matter how hard they tried (or didn't). Most seemed afraid of it and would jump every time it sparked LOL!

Since most of my welding is 1/4" or less the MIG is fine but if I were looking at anything thicker I'd try to find an old buzz box to have around for sure.

 

[Wolf]

Junk is really trying to weld 2 more wheels on that SV 650 so he can balance better :)

Funny how this works, actually sacry...I'm in the same boat. Mower deck mounts broke. I have never welded a darn thing, and am tired of hitting my friends up all the time, so I decided to shop for a stick welder...seems to be the least complicated and relatively fool proof.

 

[Jaybird]

Junkie, if you can learn to lay down a good pass with a stick welder, then you will be able to MIG no problem. MIG is your best bet for what you described as everyday sort of welding projects, but when you bring things like loader brackets into the picture only the best MIG welders should be trusted, and even then it is very questionable if it will hold up.

Get a 240vac arc welding "buzz box" and you will be in business. So much easier to simply buy a few pounds of the proper rods for any particular job than trying to find a the proper spool of wire for a MIG welder.

For the particular job you have described, you first want to grind a bevel on both surfaces of the mating metals. Then after quick tacks to hold things in place, you should lay down whats called a "root pass" with a mild steel all purpose rod ie..6011 or 6010. Then you will want to run a pass (or maybe several) with a low hydrogen rod (7018) if you want it to stay welded.
Those two rods have a completely different style of use, and it takes instruction of some sort to be able to run them properly (best if an old timer shows you, but you can get it from a book). But, they will do the job, where a MIG simply will break again next year.

Best of luck!

 

[XRpredator]

Vulf, don't be afraid of a MIG, man. With the slag and whatnot you develop when you stick weld, you'll find it far easier using a MIG with gas. I've never done flux-core without gas, but I've always found the MIG way easy. You just gotta make sure you don't kink it ant it's all good.

 

[Patman]

There is plenty of slag without gas but mostly just tiny little stuff no grat big gobs.

 

[Jaybird]

Whats the big deal about slag? Slag is a good thing, and is a result of actually having a flux that is needed to perform a proper weld. Mild steel rod will produce a slag on the weld that may need to be hit with a grinder to remove..but it is not necessary unless you are after pretty. A good weld with a low hydrogen rod, the flux will simply peel right off behind the weld as it cools, or hit once with a hammer and it will fall off. If it doesn't you need to practice your welding.

A good MIG weld will never have been the result of a flux core wire. That stuff simply is not going to produce a good strong weld. It is for the sheet metal tacks you may need once a year, not for welding. A good and proper MIG weld that gives any sort of penetration will be with quality wire and a good Co2 or Argon gas stream (the gas is the flux).

I know folks tend to form opinions based on the equipment they may have bought or have experience with, but IMO spending money on ANY 110VAC machine is a waste of money, unless it is only the occasional sheet metal tacking you are after. 110VAC machines, MIG or stick, simply cannot produce the needed amperage to make a weld with proper penetration, no matter how good a welder you may be.
For the sort of stuff that Junkie and Wolf are describing, there isn't a 110 volt machine that can do the job.

 

[Jaybird]

Hard to beat this machine for the money.
http://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p000014.htm

The site also lists AC only stick welders for great prices, but for a couple hundred extra, you get an AC/DC machine that will handle anything you will come across.
The free shipping is also a plus.

BTW, "Light Duty" in a stick welder means you can weld steel plate of considerable thickness, and usually is taking about the rod size that can be used. The term when applied to MIG welders means it can weld up to 10 gauge metal (1/8" max).

 

[Rich Rohrich]

... but IMO spending money on ANY 110VAC machine is a waste of money, unless it is only the occasional sheet metal tacking you are after. 110VAC machines, MIG or stick, simply cannot produce the needed amperage to make a weld with proper penetration, no matter how good a welder you may be.
For the sort of stuff that Junkie and Wolf are describing, there isn't a 110 volt machine that can do the job.

I don't know. My machine runs off of 110V and it can lay down a decent weld on occasion. :nener:

 

[Jaybird]

OK, now if we are going to talk squarewave machines, we are into another realm. Although I would not want to use one for any sort of 3/8" or bigger steel.

And what did you give for that jewel, 4 grand?
I would love to have one of those in my garage. (jealous)

 

[Rich Rohrich]

OK, now if we are going to talk squarewave machines, we are into another realm. Although I would not want to use one for any sort of 3/8" or bigger steel.

I'm just messing with you Jay. ;) I rarely weld anything thicker than 0.125" .

On heavy stuff in the 0.375" and up range the old reliable red Lincoln stick box you mentioned is the way to go. It's the box I learned to weld with, as it was for lots of others.

I still think for relatively "clean" pieces in the 0.125" and under range a good 110V MIG box using gas is an excellent and affordable choice that most people can learn to use effectively.

 

[CaptainObvious]

As is usually the case, there are many options and opinions. I was thinking about a Miller Millermatic 140 Autoset, but then Jay said not to bother with 110VAC units. I think I want the ability to be able to go 0.250". Some 110VAC units show that as a maximum thickness, but does it really make sense to run a machine at it's maximum capacity. A little head-room is always a good thing.

I don't have 220 in the garage right now, but given the size of my air compressor, I should. This might be a good excuse to run some romex.

 

[Rich Rohrich]

I don't have 220 in the garage right now, but given the size of my air compressor, I should. This might be a good excuse to run some romex.

Junk - If you can run 220v, then you open up a ton of options.

 

[Patman]

Yup the gas makes all the difference in the world!

No doubt that if I had 220 then I might have gone a different route but considering nothing I've welded has broken, the unit I have is rated to 5/16" mild steel and I butt welded a couple pieces of scrap 1/4" just to make sure I was getting the penetration I wanted on a project which it did, I'm going to say I'm happy. Next time around I might get 220 in my bigger and better shop at the next house and then maybe I'll look at a 220 box of some kind but for now I'm satisfied and comfortable with the equipment and results.

 

[Jaybird]

Junk, don't let my over-opinionated comments sway what you want to do. Although, I agree with Rich running some new romex will open up lots of options. I have used the little machines for what they are intended for and they do quite a nice job. Lincoln and Miller just do not sell junk.

My comments were based on the task at hand. And it also sounds like you may want to become a welder. And since you are a man of some means, I would opt for the range of machine that is going to give me some versatility in the future.

If you do go stick, be sure and read up on the DC aspects of a stick welder. It will allow you to make some very nice welds on small stuff like sheet metal. And if you had brought a sheet metal application to the table, I would not hesitate to recommend the small 110vac MIG welders (with gas only though). But just like dirt bikes, don't go and buy Chinese...unless it's a #38, with a spring roll and extra duck sauce.

 

[oldguy]

Funny how this works, actually sacry...I'm in the same boat. Mower deck mounts broke. I have never welded a darn thing, and am tired of hitting my friends up all the time, so I decided to shop for a stick welder...seems to be the least complicated and relatively fool proof.

exactly why I was asking this same question a week or so ago. Mower deck is broke, needed tie downs on a trailer, bracket on camper is cracked- all fixes that need very little strength but the JB Weld just wasn't doing it :) .
After picking the mods that weld I decided on the MIG. Hopefuly pick one up after the first of the month and start melting metal.
BTW my ploy with my wife to try getting her to buy it for me didn't work
me: but if you buy it think how much I can fix around here
her: You don't know how to weld
me: I can't learn if you don't buy me one but just think all the stuff I can fix
her: wouldn't it be easier if you just stopped breaking things :bang:

 

[Patman]

Oh come on now birdman don't go back peddlin' because I'm pouting ;)

Remind her of the large life insurance policy Dave and she's bound to come home with a giant TIG box for ya'. :)