Milky oil, major head scratcher, HELP!!

[450TRAILRIDER]

I posted this here because I thought it fit best.

Alright lets start at the beginning. I ordered a 480cc overbore kit w/ Hotcam from Eric Gore and installed it. I did the correct break in procedure, ( @ 30 min at 2,000 - 5,000 rpm then changed oil and filter) and all went well ( I cant remember anything wrong with the oil then). I took it out for a ride the next day, and the pilot jet kept getting clogged up. Well I boiled all the engine ice out because "I thought" that I was overheating it by running it lean with the pilot jet clogging up. Ended up putting about 30 - 45 min. on it. Called it a day and went home. When I got home I drained all the fluids and noticed the oil had a green color. ??? Checked my coolant level and there was almost none left. I broke it back down and saw that when I was swapping over cylinders that I bent the collar that passes the coolant up to the bottom of the cylinder from the water pump. I ordered a new collar and gasket kit, and put it all back together. I decided to fire it up for 5 minute intervals and drain the fluids and change the filter, to try to get all the engine ice out of the crankcase as best as I knew possible. Well I did that for 10 oil changes and the oil is still coming out milky. I broke it back down last night and I noticed that the new collar had a little looser fit than the original one. I measured it this morning and it is 0.698 and the on-line microfiche spec calls for 18mm or 0.708. I don't know if that is enough to leak by or not.

Questions

#1. Do you think that that is enough clearance to leak by the sides of the collar?
#2. Could the water pump seal be leaking into the crank oil side, (I have never been into the bottom)?
#3. Have I just got some chambers in the crank that is retaining coolant somehow and I need to break it down to find that?
#4. Is the oil (Honda GN4) just going to have a white cast to it until it gets " burnt " in?


Any ideas guys. I am really pulling my hair out over this. :bang: :bang:

 

[Ol'89r]

Questions

#1. Do you think that that is enough clearance to leak by the sides of the collar?

No, there is only a difference of .001 and there is still a gasket around the collar.


#2. Could the water pump seal be leaking into the crank oil side, (I have never been into the bottom)?

That would be my guess. Check your water pump seal.

#3. Have I just got some chambers in the crank that is retaining coolant somehow and I need to break it down to find that?

There may be some residual water still in the crankcase but, after a couple oil changes it should be gone.

#4. Is the oil (Honda GN4) just going to have a white cast to it until it gets " burnt " in?

It shouldn't.

Just my $.02

 

[450TRAILRIDER]

Questions

#1. Do you think that that is enough clearance to leak by the sides of the collar?

No, there is only a difference of .001 and there is still a gasket around the collar.


#2. Could the water pump seal be leaking into the crank oil side, (I have never been into the bottom)?

That would be my guess. Check your water pump seal.


Just my $.02

Thanks for your input.

I dont see a gasket around the collar on my bike and I cant find one on the online microfiche.

On the CRF's the tranny oil and crankcase oil are seperate. Do you know if the water pump seal is between the tranny oil or the crank oil housing??

 

[450TRAILRIDER]

Any more ideas???

 

[Ol'89r]

I dont see a gasket around the collar on my bike and I cant find one on the online microfiche.

On the CRF's the tranny oil and crankcase oil are seperate. Do you know if the water pump seal is between the tranny oil or the crank oil housing??

450TRAILRIDER.

I'm not sure what collar you are refering to. If it is the one on the front of the cylinder, that one should have a o-ring around it. If that one leaks, it will leak to the outside not into the oil.

If the engine oil is showing signs of water, it is most likely the water pump seal. The water pump seal will leak into the crankcase oil, not the gearbox oil.

 

[450TRAILRIDER]

450TRAILRIDER.

I'm not sure what collar you are refering to. If it is the one on the front of the cylinder, that one should have a o-ring around it. If that one leaks, it will leak to the outside not into the oil.

If the engine oil is showing signs of water, it is most likely the water pump seal. The water pump seal will leak into the crankcase oil, not the gearbox oil.

Thanks for the info.

It is not that collar, it is the collar that fits into the bottom of the cylinder. I ordered all new seals, o-rings, gaskets, and collars last night that has anything to do with coolant getting near the crank oil.

You say that the water pump seal will leak into the crank oil, this is the info that I am looking for. :cool: I have gotten a lot of opinions but a lot of people did not realize that they were seperate area's.

Thanks again. Hopefully this will seal it up. I am also going to check and make sure that the cylinder to crankcase is seating flush.

I just want to ride. :ride: :ride: :ride:

 

[ScottS]

I noticed that the new collar had a little looser fit than the original one. I measured it this morning and it is 0.698 and the on-line microfiche spec calls for 18mm or 0.708. I don't know if that is enough to leak by or not.

Questions

#1. Do you think that that is enough clearance to leak by the sides of the collar?
#2. Could the water pump seal be leaking into the crank oil side, (I have never been into the bottom)?
#3. Have I just got some chambers in the crank that is retaining coolant somehow and I need to break it down to find that?
#4. Is the oil (Honda GN4) just going to have a white cast to it until it gets " burnt " in?


Any ideas guys. I am really pulling my hair out over this. :bang: :bang:

Actually .698 - .708 is .010 or 10 thousandths, seems pretty sloppy for a machined part. Did you measure the old part ?

The o ring might have been stretched if the old one was bigger , then not seal on the smaller one

Water pump seal is a good suggestion. The heat may have caused it to fail.

 

[450TRAILRIDER]

Actually .698 - .708 is .010 or 10 thousandths, seems pretty sloppy for a machined part. Did you measure the old part ?

The o ring might have been stretched if the old one was bigger , then not seal on the smaller one

Water pump seal is a good suggestion. The heat may have caused it to fail.

This collar does not have a o-ring on it. It just sits there. I did not spec the old one, I just know that it fit snug. The last two new ones that I have ordered do not fit snug.

I broke it down further last night and it cannot be the water pump. On the CRF, the water pump is in the sideplate and if it leaked then it would go into the tranny oil, not the crankcase oil housing.

I am wondering now if the cylinder was warped.

 

[Ol'89r]

I broke it down further last night and it cannot be the water pump. On the CRF, the water pump is in the sideplate and if it leaked then it would go into the tranny oil, not the crankcase oil housing.

I am wondering now if the cylinder was warped.

Oops. Your right, my bad. :ohmy:

The collar in the bottom of the cylinder is sealed by the base gasket. If it were leaking coolant into the crankcase area it should show some indication of it on the base gasket. Make sure the collar is not too long and is holding the cylinder up off of the gasket surface.

Check the passageway that goes from the bottom of the cylinder to the right side cover. If there were a casting flaw in that passageway, it could leak into the crankcase. With the cylinder and right side cover removed, pressurize that passageway to make sure there are no casting flaws (holes,imperfections) in the passageway.

Between that passageway and the right side cover there should be another 18mm collar and an o-ring. Although, if that one were leaking it would leak into the gearbox.

I'm starting to get confused. :coocoo: