More excuses . . .

[XRpredator]

as to why Stewart can't keep up on his 250 (but Henry managed a strong 5th at whooped out Southwick on a YZ250 . . .)

. . . people remember that Carmichael had few problems battling with Windham when he was still on a Honda CR250R, but there is a difference. Let me explain.…

Anyone who has ever gone to a big minicycle or even amateur national race knows how different the tracks form when compared to on any Sunday. The lines through the corners are tighter, the braking bumps smaller, and the ruts just a little choppier. It can be tough to get into a flow on a 250 (let alone a 450) on a track that was set up by kids on 80s.

Well, two years ago, less than half the field were on four-strokes in the 250 class, and the 125cc tiddlers still ruled their namesake class. Now there are usually a total of four two-stroke motorcycles in every national—Brett Metcalfe‘s YZ125 and the KX250s of Bubba, Mike Byrne and Sean Hamblin. As a result, the lines through every corner run deeper, as the power of a 450F or 250F is utilized at different exit points than someone on a two-stroke 250. The tracks are just bigger and longer as a result, as everyone pushes to the outside to roll the power on.

In supercross, everyone keeps it tight and straight and the tracks rarely break down, so a 250cc motorcycle is still the brand of choice. But outdoors, more is better when it comes to power, and the tracks have been altered as a result. The banners may be in the same place, but the lines have changed because almost everyone is riding a four-stroke, and that seems to be starting to frustrate Stewart. He looked every bit as aggressive and creative as he always has, but he just couldn’t make a dent in all that power. Those little inside berms that he was always so good at railing are mostly gone now. Instead, he’s being made to race a “bigger” track, and that’s why he’s starting to talk about getting on a 450 as soon as possible.

:blah:

 

[bclapham]

i think its an interesting observation that certainly has some merits. a few weeks ago, i spent a couple of weeekdays out at my local track (Cahuilla Creek). Its really deep and loamy, on on those days there was a couple of us novices out there and about 50 AMA pros getting ready for the nationals. I could get around that track pretty well, but on those days all of their lines were so much different to a regular day it made it really hard to ride for me and my buddies. Lines are everything in MX, and its not inconcievable to me that 4-strokes make much different lines than 2 strokes.

That said, a 2-stroke can make lines the thumper cant, and you would think someone could capatilize on this and find them smooth lines the big fat heavy thumpers cant hit.

 

[ellandoh]

maybe we could all write the ama and see if the tracks could get a few extra groomings just for bubba :ahhh:

 

[Senior KX Rider]

Seems like I read somewhere that Henry was riding a year old YZ on that High-horspower track. Wonder what he could have done with a fresh, factory team bike :)

 

[Okiewan]

That said, a 2-stroke can make lines the thumper cant, and you would think someone could capatilize on this and find them smooth lines the big fat heavy thumpers cant hit.

Yes, that's exactly why RC is on a 2-stroke.

Seems to me, everyone complains about the 2 vs 4 thing until Stewart is involved, then suddenly, the 4 has no advantage. Tell that to the top 10 in the Nats right now. Why is RC on a thumper? Because Suzuki "makes" him ride it? Don't kid yourself, Suzuki will lick his boot soles several times a day if he asks them to. If you don't believe a 4-stroke is faster, or at least easier to go faster on, you are in denial, period. RC said that himself, for all you RC worshipers :p

You guys need to make up your minds... is the 4-s an advantage or not?

 

[holeshot]

Most riders were on 250 four strokes when Bubba was winning on his 125. RC is a little better than Bubba at the moment (but there's no denying that a 450 four stroke gets more power to the ground).

Take RC out of the picture and I'll bet Coombs would have a whole new BS analysis.

 

[funktree]

I know it would never happen but I would love RC to show up with a 2 stroke at one of the nationals. Maybe if he gets far enough ahead in the points like the year he raced one 125 race.

 

[steve125]

I don't think its fair to say the 4 strokes make lines that are less beneficial for the 2 smoke.

My observation at Budds was the 450's have more POWER plain and simple. And at the top pro level that matters big time. Anyone that doubts that, needs to go out and watch a National this summer. Outdoors the 450 has a clear advantage.

Bruce, anytime the pros are out on the track 2 or 4 stroke, it gets wide real quick! :nod:

 

[bclapham]

Yes, that's exactly why RC is on a 2-stroke.

Seems to me, everyone complains about the 2 vs 4 thing until Stewart is involved, then suddenly, the 4 has no advantage. Tell that to the top 10 in the Nats right now. Why is RC on a thumper? Because Suzuki "makes" him ride it? Don't kid yourself, Suzuki will lick his boot soles several times a day if he asks them to. If you don't believe a 4-stroke is faster, or at least easier to go faster on, you are in denial, period. RC said that himself, for all you RC worshipers :p

You guys need to make up your minds... is the 4-s an advantage or not?

you missed my point. the 2 stroke is down on power, but can take tighter lines. Its a shame Bubba cant capitalise on that, but the extra power of the 450s are showing through outdoors.

that said, thanks to ESPN/OLN ive only seen about 30 mins of MX and SX all year, and i am glad i have the opportunity to go out and race tomorrow.

 

[funktree]

seems to me the 4 strokes have too much power for good racing, I only went to a few 500 nationals before they got rid of em and the races were similar to how the "250" class is now. There were only 4 or so guys that could go fast on em and for most of the race they were each seperated by 10 or more seconds. Now this is only based on the few 500 nats that I was able to attend, maybe the open class wasn't always like that.

 

[mxneagle]

All I can say is that when Bubba gets his 450 he'd better smoke RC or he'll be eating a whole lot of crow now.

 

[Chili]

Nah then it will be the lack of testing time on the new 450 or mechanical issues because the bike is new.

 

[ChopperDave]

I don't know the sport that well, but Bubba must be doing something right (at least better than all the arm chair{bench} racers) if he's out there mx'ing it with the big boys.

 

[john3_16]

As a result, the lines through every corner run deeper, as the power of a 450F or 250F is utilized at different exit points than someone on a two-stroke 250. The tracks are just bigger and longer as a result, as everyone pushes to the outside to roll the power on.

He either purposely uses the ambiguity of a politician to appear not to show favoritism between the 2 and 4 stroke or he's trying to be too unique getting his point across.


Sounds like he's trying get by without flat out saying the 4 strokes have a power advantage when given the ability to take outside lines while at the same time trying to imply that more inside lines or a 4 stroke would instantly put Bubba in first place.

I'm glad we have Bailey back in the announcers booth.

 

[mafols]

Will you be at a disadvantage in the outdoors with all the other top guys on 450s?
The new 2005 Kawasakis are really fast stock. Rick Ash, he actually built this motor that I can’t even ride right now! It’s too fast. I don’t think I will be at a disadvantage. I know when the Kawasaki four-stroke does come out, I am going to get on that. I think we are right there. We have power. We are good.

RACERX ALPINESTAR MONDAY CONVERSTION
4/4/05

 

[Shermanator]

Will you be at a disadvantage in the outdoors with all the other top guys on 450s?
The new 2005 Kawasakis are really fast stock. Rick Ash, he actually built this motor that I can’t even ride right now! It’s too fast. I don’t think I will be at a disadvantage. I know when the Kawasaki four-stroke does come out, I am going to get on that. I think we are right there. We have power. We are good.

RACERX ALPINESTAR MONDAY CONVERSTION
4/4/05

Maybe that is the problem they built the motor too fast for him to ride.

 

[Zoomer]

Gee, He seems to be doing pretty good on the starts, seems like he is in the top 4 (someone I'm sure will have this information) on most his starts, beating about 95 % of the 4 strokes. Granted starts are alot of the rider, but you still need a competitive (read as fast as, or as much HP as)the rest of the field. Rider ability gets you the first 10 feet, HP takes over from there. He is able to beat 98 % of the guys out there on there 4 strokes, but his bike is under powered!?. RC is just faster, thats all. :moon:

 

[marcusgunby]

seems weird henry doesnt seem to have the same moans?an old fart whos not done any ama mx for a while gets 5th ,but stewart with all his super skills/fastest rider in the world etc cant hack it on a 2 stroke?

 

[Ryone]

At High Point in Mt. Morris, John Sebastion Roy got the holeshot in moto 2 on a CR250, and Bubba was 3rd in the first corner on a KX250. Fonseca was between the two on his CRF450.
Bubba said in a pre-race interview that he doesn't feel he's at a disadvantage on the 250. One race later at Southwick, he said that he needs a 4-stroke to keep up with RC.

During the Mt. Morris race, Bubba passed RC in moto 1, then lost the lead after he blew out a rut and collided with RC.
In moto 2, he passed Fonseca and Roy after a couple turns, and then lost the lead to RC in the rhythm section right before the finish line. He didn't get passed on an uphill, or straightaway. He got passed where the 2-stroke should've been working to his advantage... jumps.

He just can't keep RC's pace yet, nor will he be able to on a thumper.

Ryan

 

[dirt bike dave]

At Hangtown Moto 1, Bubba blazed from near last up to 6th in about 15 minutes. Then his lap times slowed down, and he could not gain at all on 5th place Juss Laansoo.

Damn two strokes. You just never know how much they are going to slow down at the end of a long hot moto. Bubba's seems to run a little better when its not hot or humid.

I would LOVE to see RC get a 100+ point lead and ride the last two rounds of the series on an RM250. He'll still win all 4 motos and take the title with a 120+ point cushion.

I can see it now - 110 degrees out and RC smoking the four strokes up the hills at Glen Helen. Please RC - throw us 2 stroke fans a bone!

 

[ellandoh]

wouldnt that make suzukis day :boss:

i'll say one thing, if rc goes out on a 250 and blows the doorhandles off the field including jbs on a 4stroke ....i will buy an rm for my next machine ;)

 

[Ryone]

Yes... but it's not the bike... it's the rider :ride:

That's what this whole thing is about.

 

[ellandoh]

Yes... but it's not the bike... it's the rider :ride:

That's what this whole thing is about.

didnt say it was ..................sorry you caught a grass bass

 

[Ryone]

yeah... you lost me at grass bass

 

[nephron]

The real issue is his fading, whatever the cause. It seems his last moto at RB was most characteristic. You can look at his laptimes, and see that Windham was just running the same speed he had been all race, while Stewart was slowing down several seconds a lap every lap until he was over the 3:00 mark. I obviously like Stewart, but the comment after the race really killed me. Windham was stoked, but polite. When Stewart was interviewed, he calmly said he wouldn't want to win the race 'this way' (taking Windham down), so he just 'let him by'. Come on Stewart, you can do better than that. :|