My KIPS Doesn't work

[Racerjoey1]

I checked the shaft that connects from the bottom of the motor to the top that operate the KIPS. I pulled the boot bike and revved the motor and that rod never moved. The rod itself has surface rust all over it. I know that the valves are gonna be really gummed up with spooge so I am going to remove them this week. I may start tonight. Also, what could cause that shaft to not turn? If the valves are stuck will that rod move? Could the rod be broken in the bottom end of the motor?

Thanks,
Joey

 

[G. Gearloose]

What state of tune is the bike?

When my bike was jetted stock, the PV wouldn't open even if I held the throttle pegged. (too rich). Otherwise;

Loosten the LEFT HAND THREAD (turn it to the right to loosten) nut atop the shaft (while securing the shaft from rotating), and exercise the kips lever to make sure they are not jammed up. Peer in the exhaust port to verify. if jammed, don't force, pop the head, secure some instructions, and clean and replace the kips.

 

[cicone]

Joey, didn't you post about a rattling noise in the engine? This is starting to sound ominous. I hope your KIPS shaft hasn't snapped. That hardened steel flying around in the crank can do significant damage. Keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[Racerjoey1]

Yeah I did, but it was a transmission related noise and the bike runs the same as it did before. Yesterday was just the first time I checked the KIPS and the shaft didn't move. I think the valves are probably so gummed and carboned up that they are stuck.

 

[kdxtaz]

I think the broken bottom of a kips shaft in the crankcase could cause a "transmission related noise" don't you? You should check that out.

 

[canyncarvr]

Wasn't there a 'bike running bad' thread earlier? This is the reason, right?

re: if stuck, won't move?

Yes.

re: broke?

Probably. That comes from the maroon that uses the 'lefty-loosey, righty-tighty' mnemonic for that nut that gearloose cautions is LEFT HAND THREAD!

If you haven't destroyed the entire engine after such a breakage, consider yourself lucky.

re: noise in the tranny.

I don't recall......someone looked inside (took it apart?) and DIDN'T determine the shaft was broken?

Hhhmmmm......

You can remove the slotted cover on the left side of the cylinder and actuate the kips via the nut on the main shaft.

As noted already, do not force it! It moves easily (and returns to the 'at rest' state just as easily) if it's not goobered, broke etc.

You MUST fix this. Don't risk even another start up until you know where the pieces are.

 

[Racerjoey1]

It doesn't make sense. The bike has always run poorly since I bought it. I think it it just a coincidence that I heard that crunch/screeching noise a couple weeks ago and that I just checked to see if the powervalve works. My question was, if the main and side valves are stuck, will that rod still spin when the engine revs. If the valves are stuck, does that mean that the rod with stick too? I am just trying to eliminate different things. If that rod is broken of in the bottom end, that means the cases have to be split right? I wonder how much this is gonna cost me.

 

[cicone]

don't panic---just don't start the thing again until you find the problem....and there DEFINITELY is one. Motors do not make horrible screaching and crunching sounds unless something is amiss. That's metal to metal you hear and it's always a bad thing. Could be the kips is stuck??--maybe-- but something caused the noise. Piece of a clutch plate? part of the kips grinding through your tranny? Tooth off the clutch basket??etc... only one way to find out---good luck!

 

[Racerjoey1]

That would be to tear the motor down I assume. About how much does an average shop charge to do something like this. Lets just say to get it torn down and rebuilt if it doesn't need any new parts which it probably will. I just need a rough estimate to get a baseline so I can start putting money aside.

Joey

 

[kdxtaz]

First do what c.carvr said and make sure the kips valves are free via the nut on the horizontal shaft. If that's free it's probably a broken-in-the-case shaft.

 

[levert]

Silly question cocerning your tranny, Is there oil in there?

 

[rschli2]

Racr,

Calm down, To simply inspect the KIPS actuator rod does not require "splitting the case" The right side engine cover can be removed in about 15 minutes with common hand tools. The lower end of the KIPS actuator should have an offset guide that is attached to the Actuator rod with two allen screws. The working end of the guide will be fitted into a slot in the centrifical servo that is driven from the crank main gear. In most cases of failure the offset guide breaks at the 90 degree bend where it is attached to the actuator rod.

 

[Canadian Dave]

Joey to give you good accurate advice we'll need to know what year KDX we are talking about here as he 1989-94 and 95-04 KDXs use a different design KIPS system each with there own trouble spots.

I'm gong to assume we are talking about a 95+ KDX here . . . . given your description of the problem and previous “transmission noises" I'd strongly suggest, as others have, that the bottom of the KIPS shaft is snapped off and fallen into the transmission/clutch area. Please do yourself a favor and don't start the bike again until you have removed the clutch cover (no splitting cases required) and confirm if this is the case or not. Continuing to operate the bike in its present condition could result in massive engine damage. Do not reassemble the engine until you have located and removed the bottom of the shaft, assuming that this is the problem. If this is not the problem get back to us and we'll take it from there.

A new shaft is cheap and easy to install. You'll see a noticeable improvement in power output once the system is working properly again. The shaft will last forever if proper care is taken when removing the reverse thread nut located at the top of the shaft yet may are snapped by those who don't relize this is the case. This is a common enough problem that places like Fredette Racing Products carry them in stock.

David

 

[louis]

Does someone live near this kid?

 

[Racerjoey1]

I have pulled the clutch cover but I didn't find any damage to the clutch plates or the basket which leads me to believe that it is the KIPS shaft. I should have this problem solved within this week hopefully.

 

[canyncarvr]

You will be better served if you read the answers to your questions.

re: 'My question was, if the main and side valves are stuck, will that rod still spin when the engine revs'

And the answer was, 'If stuck, won't move.' Of course, if the thing is in a couple of pieces, some part of it may well still move. ;)

The whole thing is geared to work together. If you access the nut under the left-hand slotted cover, turn it, you will see everything move as it should if the system is working as it should.

IF you see the main shaft move (the main shaft being the one placed horizontally in the cylinder), it should move the actuating shaft that goes down into the right-hand case area.

You can feel the main spring tension when you actuate the system by hand. If that spring tension isn't there, the top 'stuff' isn't connected to the bottom 'stuff.'

The actuating shaft isn't easy to see with just the clutch cover off. In order to see the shaft and the actuator clearly, the right cover needs to be removed.

Basically, if you actuate the main shaft via the LH nut, you will be able to tell what works, what don't, and why it don't.

As said repeatedly (in case you missed it) do not start the engine until this is resolved. Don't even kick the thing over. Just 'cuz you haven't ruined something yet, doesn't mean it can't still happen.

 

[Racerjoey1]

I turned the nut under the slotted cover on the lh side and didnt feel any tension. I am gonna pull the right side off probably starting tonight and working on it in the evenings. I really want to get this resolved and get the bike back in good working order. Im sure the moron before me snapped the shaft when he did the top end. I really wish I would have known more about KDX's before I bought this one, then I could have caught this problem. Hopefully it didn't do any damage and I can get it fixed without dropping alot of $$$.

 

[cicone]

Joey--If it only made noise that one time and since has shifted and run ok, I'm optimistic that the damage is minimal. Hopefully it just banged around once and found a hiding place away from anything vital. Keep us posted.

 

[KnoxKDX]

Joey, did you ever figure out what the problem was for sure?