jimt_yz400

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Dec 25, 2000
314
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I've been trying to get my stamina up to race enduros this fall and I've been spending alot of time at the MX track. I've also been practising standing up more, which is always a good thing, but for the last few weeks my knees, patela tendon, have been killing me!!
It hurts to get out of a chair now. My Chiro told me that I'm stressing that particular tendon by standing up for that long while having the quads contracted. He recommended that I ice the heck out of them and rest them a little more. It's really to bad since my endurance has gone up (*a good thing) and I'm riding more relaxed. It's a drag getting old!!
Has anyone experienced this before? This is the 1st time that I have experienced this pblm.
 

IBWFO

Member
Aug 5, 2001
367
0
Been there and done that!
How old are you?
Do you do any weight training?
Some of the weight training you can do is to go to the gym and do leg lifts on the bench. In other words lie on the table and put the bar "under your feet and lift up. Do small weights and a lot of repetitions. This will build your patella.
Also you can put your back to the wall and do squats against the wall.
To put less strain on the patella do leg lifts on the bench but put the bar "behind" your ankles and pull "down" Again do a lot of reps with like 30 pounds, or whatever you can do about 25 times. Do sets of three resting 60 sec between reps. Leg lifts are also another great one to help take some of the strain of of your legs.
Regards:D
 

chumbucket

Member
Apr 5, 2001
139
0
It could be a thing caled othershlogers I think thats how its spelled.It only happens while you are a teenager or until you stop growing.What it is,is your leg bones grow faster then the tendon, I am not sure what tendon,but when the tendon is stretched to were it cant go any more it brakes a little
piece of the bone off on you shin right next to your knee.The doctor told me that it would heel its self when I stop growing but I would have some knee pain until then.This could be what you have unless you have stoped growing.
 

Thump

Jr Admin Type
Jan 17, 2000
4,656
7
Originally posted by chumbucket
It could be a thing caled othershlogers...
Osgood-Schlatter disease (OSD), is common in active, rapidly growing teens. It usually goes away on its own within 12 to 24 months.

Taking a break from activity, applying heat or ice, and stretching may relieve some pain. Exercises can strengthen bone, cartilage, and tendons in your knees and make you less susceptible to flare-ups.

OSD is an inflammation (irritation) where the tendon from the patella, or kneecap, attaches to the tibia, or shin bone. Preteens and young teens are particularly susceptible to stresses in this area, because the bone is growing rapidly at this age. Any activity can cause OSD, but it's more common following activities that involve a lot of jumping and cutting, like basketball, volleyball, soccer, figure skating, and gymnastics.

A typical symptom of OSD is pain in the front of the shin about 2 to 3 inches below the kneecap. There may also be swelling in the area, especially if you've had the condition for several months. Symptoms can range from mild knee pain only during sports to constant pain that makes participation impossible.

I had it growing up ad it was BAD! I still have a big knot on my right knee. When I had ACL surgery in December the doc said it was a huge calcium deposit left over from OSD and he choose to take a patella graft from my left knee rather than comprimise the right. That knot still hurts if it gets hit.

Jim, I doubt this is your problem unless you are 10-12 years old, but I think not because you ride a bike bike. I am no doctor but it sounds like tendonitis. Ice the heck out of it! Fill dixie cups with water and freeze them, then tear the botoms off and do small circles around he sore area until numb or till the skin turns bright red (usually about 10 minutes). Over hydrate....1-2 gallons of water daily and my doc told me to take 800mg ibuprofin daily rather it is hurting or not because it is an anti-inflamitory that has a cumulative effect... meaning you gotta get it in your system at a constant level for it to work properly.
 

jimt_yz400

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Dec 25, 2000
314
0
Yes, I agree, I doubt that I have the disease since I am 39 years old.
I do weight lift, one or two times a week, poweer walk the dog twice a week (2 miles each time) and I ride 2 - 4 times a week. This pblm started when I rode an eduro last June and I Harescrambled the last 48 miles. I just killed myself cause I left 10 min late ( I was waiting for my son who didn't finish).
I then had pain in my rebulit knee( acl reconstruct). After that I've been riding
mostly MX tracks to get into shape but the more I ride the more they are hurt.
The walking is now bothering me and I've thought about cycling a little more but I was told that this may not be a good thing since it loads the patella tendon, especially if you go at it hard. So, not sure what I should do. I've iced them but it seems to have no effect, but maybe in the short term.
I'll try to do some of the exercises that were recommended and see how it goes. I've lots of ached and pains since I've been very active for most of my life but this seems to bugging the crap out of me.

You know one more thought, I purchased the Asterisk knee braces just after the enduro and I have been wearing them and I'm wondering if that is causing
a pblm?
 

Thump

Jr Admin Type
Jan 17, 2000
4,656
7
Originally posted by jimt_yz400
You know one more thought, I purchased the Asterisk knee braces just after the enduro and I have been wearing them and I'm wondering if that is causing
a pblm?
Not sure that could be the problem unless you don't have it properly adjusted for your leg. Like I said, to me it sounds like tendonitis. 39 + Very active = bad joints.
 

skmcbride

Member
May 16, 2001
58
0
I would stay away from knee extension exercises on machines. Try some partial squats with light weight from full knee extension to no more than 45 degrees on a Smith machine or equivilant to allow you feet to be out in front of your knees. As you squat do not let your knees pass the imaginary plane in front of your toes as this will increase stress on tendon. I have also gotten good results with elliptical trainers, not steppers as they cause to much flexion. You are experiencing a common problem that can be resolved. Unfortunately, non-contractile tissues are slower to respond than muscle to training so when we push are training to a new or different levels we need to go at a pace to allow tendon, cartilage and ligament to adapt since they lag behind muscle adaptation. There are straps called Cho-Pat that go around patellar tendon that can reduce some discomfort. You have probably seen pro basketball players using them for "jumpers Knee." The question is the pain on the tendon or at the level of the knee cap?
Good Luck, Keith.
 

jimt_yz400

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Dec 25, 2000
314
0
The pain is mostly below the knee cap but it is sore all around the cap.
I'll try to stick to icing and Ibuprofen (1200mg/day) but I'm not sure about
exercising it, it just seems to aggravate it and make it inflamed.
This really sucks since it's hard for me to rest, I can't still for very long, unless I'm medicated/ sedated!!
 

IBWFO

Member
Aug 5, 2001
367
0
I have had ACL replacement in both knees and had the same exact problem you are having after getting my 97 CR. (which I have sold) My knees hurt after EVERY time I rode. I started working out like I previously mentioned and it has all but gone away. I do not wear knee braces either and was told by my doctor here (Dallas) not to wear them because there was no proof they helped.
I'm not sure I trust that, but nevertheless I don't wear them. Once I started working out and taking it seriously, things got better for me.
Now I just get roosted by my 15 year old son!
 

jimt_yz400

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Dec 25, 2000
314
0
. 39 + Very active = bad joints

Don't you just HATE that!! The thing is that I'm MORE active now than I was
20 years ago. I guess that's a good thing but it seems that I'm just wearing myself. It's kinda *sad* really.........

Thx for all of the feedback,I'll try to be more aggressive with the icing and
try to stress them a little less. Than after they start feeling better I'll start to
go at it again.
I'm bummed since I'm going to try to race the
entire fall B/C series enduros and hopefully get out of the C class but I can't be competitive if I'm trashing my knees.
Oh well, I just need to realize that I heal slower than I used to.
Cheers!!! ;)
 

BillyWho

Sir-Breaks-Alot
Mar 22, 2001
1,828
0
jimt, I would try and change you your training to low impact for a bit like cycling and swimming. I would even cut out the power walking for a while. I had the exact same thing a while ago and I stopped racing and every thing for a while. After the pain went away, I started weight training my legs a little at a time making sure not to irritate the joint and built my leg strength up to where I have no problems with them anymore. It takes a little time, but I also know it makes riding no fun when it hurts every time you stand up.
As far as the braces go,a number of people have called us after using the braces and said the pain they used to have when riding and even the next day was no longer a problem, so I wouldn't think the braces are the cause of your pain, they should actually help you.
 

fishhead

die you sycophant !
LIFETIME SPONSOR
May 22, 2000
966
0
I had similar symptoms with chrondo malacia patella. the cartilage behind the patella wears out and pressure on the patella or extension exercises cause pain.

the cure was to strengten the quads with iso's without flexing the knee and now it feels much better.
 

spt23dc

Member
Sep 22, 2001
31
0
You definately do not have Osgood Schlatters Dx. People should not talk of things they know little about. Ice is always a good thing to do the day before, the day of and the day after riding...just not for more than 10 minutes at a time or ice can then have the reverse effect. As far as weight training goes any exercise will do fine as long as there is no pain that day and the exercise does not cause pain. I have had both ACL's done in my knees 2x each and I squat regularly. People look at me crooked when they see this...but ask any exercise physiologist and they will tell you everybodys different with regards to thier bodies biomechanics. So extensions, squats, leg curls etc are all fine if they work for you...listen to your body. Ask your Chiropractor as I am a great supporter of them (I am a DC as well) about possibly getting you a tens unit for pain and using contrast baths for increased circulation to the area.
 

jimt_yz400

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Dec 25, 2000
314
0
What is a Tens unit? A contrast bath sounds interesting but I don't think that he has one of those.
Regarding my DC , I've been seeing them for about 10 years now. I 've had a chronic lower back pblm that seems to be by design. I always have pblms with my lower back(even when I was young).
The pblm went away for about 7 years (after seeing a chiro for a year) until I started to play soccer again (as well as riding) and now it really never goes away. I have pblms standing up for more than 45 minutes. The back becomes sore/stiff so when you bend over to pick up your brief case (or whatever) it's very tight. I've been seeing my chiro for over a year now ( I
changed to a more progressive DC since I couldn't find one that would spend
enough effort diagnosing my pblms) and seeing him once a day for about 6 months and for the last 8 mos. 3 days a week. That's a whole other ball of wax, the back pblm. It's odd since I never have a sore back from riding but if I stand for too long or even walk for tool long ( like an hour) it just kills me!!
I haven't found any exercise that will help me with the standing so if you have any advice I'd appreciate it. I give presentations (I'm a pre-sales engineer, I keep the sales reps "honest") so need to constantly use the white board. It's better than a year ago, I can stand for 45min or more whereas before I was dead after 20 min, or less. I had a hard time trying to make myself breakfast for gods sake!!

The knees: I've been icing them as much as I can and I've stopped riding, well sort-of, I rode a total of 30min in the last 2weeks. They don't hurt when riding though (and they feel better if I DO NOT wear the Astericks) they only hurt when I have to get on my knees to oil the chain or work on my bikes (which is alot lately) and when you go to get up it's very painful on the patella tendon. My DC thinks that I am stressing the heck out of them due to
standing up while on the bike doing 20min motos (or whatever, maybe not that long).So, this isn't going away really just like my f&*^&%# back pblm!!
I rode my moutain bike for 30 minutes (real light) since I have had good results with my knees recuperating using the bike, so we'll see how that goes.
:( :( ...and I'm only 39!!
 

spt23dc

Member
Sep 22, 2001
31
0
A tens unit is a device which put small amounts of cuurent into your affected area by applying pads. Ask your DC where you can get a small portable one which is operated by a nine volt battery. You can use a tens unit as much as you want; time is of no significance. Keep in mind though that this is only a band aid fix which is purely for reducing pain; you can use it on your back as well. A contrast bath is nothing more than going from ice or cold H20 to warm H20 or towles; 10 minutes each back to back.
Exercises for low back: Abs! (how big or soft is your stomach?), Hamstrings (leg curls), back extensions, Hanging leg lifts(for hip flexors) and finally the best exercise for your whole body SQUATS. Some of these may sound odd, but you need to stabilize your low back area and to do this you must stabilize all muscles which keep your pelvic region in place. A common reason for men with low back pain is weak abdominals. A lot of people disagree with squats, and I may get some heat over this. If you go to a gym and ask any body experienced builder what the most important exercise in the gym is they will say squats (I listen to guys who live it; like 80 something year old Jack LaLane, not some guy who has a personal trainers certificate). It is the most complete movement which involves the most muscle groups. Get your form down properly: keep head up..feet a little more than shoulder width apart...bar is placed on back which is most comfrotable for you, and use hand grip to hold a little of the weight as well (I like bar below my cervicals, just below neck) Maybe watch others in a gym or bet a video to look at for your form) If you get your self squatting 1x every 5-6 days...and you do reps in the 15 to 20 range you can get a great cardio workout as well if you work hard. A good day of squatting will leave you with rubber band legs and soreness for the 2 days following; and that will greatly increase your entire body strength. Hopefully this will help stabilze your lower back, and give you more strength around your knee as well.Dont go nuts with the anti inflammatories cause just like they too are nothing more than a band aid in many cases which relieve pain, then you push harder than you should! Pain is a good thing in that it is your body telling you when something is wrong and to lighten up. Oh and by the way riding a bike is the best thing you can do to keep good motion in the knees which is essential. If you want any more help with setting up an exercise program feel free to e mail me at spt23dc@aol.com
 

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